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Thank you for this! Explains what us wet/snowy winter drivers need to
look out for! Wash & dry with a hair dryer...
Ken
On 3/11/2025 7:19 AM, Arden Bedell wrote:
>
> Here's some interesting information to consider about nylon and nyloc
> nuts:
> https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon
>
>
> On 3/10/25 12:15 PM, Ron Fraser via Tigers wrote:
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Iâ??m not familiar enough with the history of your Tiger so it comes
>> down to how do you feel about the Nylocks.
>>
>> Iâ??m assuming they have been on for some time, have not moved and are
>> probably very safe.
>>
>> I would check them, mark them, then regularly inspect the witness
>> marks for any movement, then decide.
>>
>> Ron Fraser
>>
>> *From:* Jay Laifman <jay.laifman@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM
>> *To:* Ron Fraser <rfraser@bluefrog.com>
>> *Cc:* modtiger@comcast.net; tigers@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts
>>
>> Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two nuts to jam tight?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37â?¯AM Ron Fraser <rfraser@bluefrog.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> As the saying goes â??Stuff Happensâ??.
>>
>> Nylock nuts are generally fine.  I would say anyone with Nylock
>> nuts should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety
>> check.  Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the front suspension;
>> I will check them and put a witness mark on them.
>>
>> As with any product some are junk.  I remember installing a
>> Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped
>> out.  I threw those Nylocks away.
>>
>> Your situation is most likely OK.  I would check the torque on
>> the nuts and put a witness mark on them.
>>
>> I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because
>> we generally think in terms of static conditions.  Vehicles are
>> on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn. Â
>> Iâ??m sure there are other dynamic forces working here too but they
>> are beyond my grade level.
>>
>> Ron Fraser
>>
>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Laifman
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM
>> *To:* modtiger@comcast.net
>> *Cc:* tigers@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts
>>
>> I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine. What ever happened to it?
>>
>> I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the
>> taper to come lose. But regardless, I think it is pretty likely
>> my lower ball joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is
>> nyloc only. Are you suggesting they are all an accident away?
>>
>> On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43â?¯PM, Tom Hall via Tigers
>> <tigers@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> It's hard to believe that this is still happening. It
>> started when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers
>> way back in the mid-eighties. The OEM suppliers had always
>> used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new supplier went
>> with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted.Â
>> My daughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered
>> Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home,
>> exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the
>> ground, and again luckily at low speed.
>>
>> Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly
>> after it happened. Rick and I sat down with them and they
>> insisted this this had never happened before and it must have
>> been _My fault_. Rick and I talked at length and they told
>> us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick
>> however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut
>> was tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed
>> in his lower ball joint stock from that time until the
>> current time. This supplier made an acceptable ball joint
>> but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM
>> supplier. What happened is that during storage after
>> manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the
>> rust process. With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter
>> of time before the friction in the joint started to turn the
>> Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone.
>>
>> Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock
>> nut but I've never heard of anyone loosing one to this
>> friction un-screw mechanism. Different loading's, different
>> results.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19â?¯PM Joe Brown
>> <jbbrown1980@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So, I took my Tiger out yesterday for a
>> short drive and as I was just about home
>> (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the
>> right front suspension dropped to the ground
>> and I skidded several yards before stopping.Â
>> All I could think of was the old stories
>> about exploding ball joints.
>>
>> I walked to my house and threw a floor jack
>> and some jack stands in my truck and drove
>> back to the Tiger. I managed to get the
>> front end jacked up and discovered that the
>> nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the
>> lower A arm had dropped to the road. My
>> suspension pieces are at least 30 years old
>> and the ball joints were held on with nylock
>> nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap
>> around the upper and lower A arms and I was
>> able to slowly drive the car into my garage.
>>
>> I am very lucky that:
>>
>> 1. I was going pretty slow at the time
>>
>> 2. The front end landed in some loose gravel
>> on the side of the road
>>
>> 3. None of the body work was damaged
>>
>> 4. And nothing else in the suspension looks
>> to be damaged; just scraped up
>>
>> If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I
>> would have been doing 60 on a winding road
>> and I would have wound up in a ditch.
>>
>> So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and
>> I will drill them out for castle nuts so I
>> don't have to worry about a nut working its
>> way loose again.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Joe Brown
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com
>>
>> <image001.jpg>
>>
>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>
>>
>>
>> Virus-free.www.avg.com
>>
>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/christopherson2023@gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>
>>
>>
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tom Hall
>>
>> ModTiger Engineering LLC
>>
>> 5712 San Luis Court
>>
>> Pleasanton, CA 94566
>>
>> (925)462-3876
>>
>> modtiger@comcast.net
>>
>> http://tigerengineering.net/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sixtysixtiger@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers@autox.team.net
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale@ix.netcom.com
>
>
--
Ken Tisdale 303-807-5488
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<p>Thank you for this! Explains what us wet/snowy winter drivers
need to look out for! Wash & dry with a hair dryer...</p>
<p>Ken<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2025 7:19 AM, Arden Bedell
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:LV8P221MB14713510FAAC8CCC4F4767A7AFD12@LV8P221MB1471.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<br>
Here's some interesting information to consider about nylon and
nyloc nuts:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon";
moz-do-not-send="true">https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/10/25 12:15 PM, Ron Fraser via
Tigers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:001601db91f0$d3f10c10$7bd32430$@bluefrog.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Iâ??m not familiar enough with the history
of your Tiger so it comes down to how do you feel about the
Nylocks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Iâ??m assuming they have been on for some
time, have not moved and are probably very safe.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would check them, mark them, then
regularly inspect the witness marks for any movement, then
decide. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jay Laifman <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jay.laifman@gmail.com";
moz-do-not-send="true"><jay.laifman@gmail.com></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ron Fraser <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rfraser@bluefrog.com";
moz-do-not-send="true"><rfraser@bluefrog.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">modtiger@comcast.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and
putting on two nuts to jam tight?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37â?¯AM Ron
Fraser <<a href="mailto:rfraser@bluefrog.com";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rfraser@bluefrog.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As the saying
goes â??Stuff Happensâ??.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nylock nuts
are generally fine.  I would say anyone with
Nylock nuts should put a witness mark on them as
an easy visual safety check.  Seems to me I have
some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check
them and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As with any
product some are junk.  I remember installing a
Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon
insert popped out.  I threw those Nylocks
away.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Your
situation is most likely OK.  I would check the
torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on
them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think the
problem we have with why the nut came off is
because we generally think in terms of static
conditions.  Vehicles are on the move, vibrations
can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.  Iâ??m sure
there are other dynamic forces working here too
but they are beyond my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ron
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Tigers <<a
href="mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">modtiger@comcast.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your
Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I remember a
light blue Mazda Alpine. What ever happened to
it? Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am not sure
I understand how friction in the ball causes the
taper to come lose. But regardless, I think it
is pretty likely my lower ball joints were
sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc
only. Are you suggesting they are all an
accident away? Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Mar 9, 2025, at
7:43â?¯PM, Tom Hall via Tigers <<a
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It's hard to believe that this is still
happening. It started when Rick at Sunbeam
Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
mid-eighties. The OEM suppliers had always
used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new
supplier went with the Nylock nut design.
which Rick initially accepted. My daughter
had this "accident" happen in her Rotary
powered Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of
blocks from home, exactly as you were, having
the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again
luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this
supplier shortly after it happened. Rick and
I sat down with them and they insisted this
this had never happened before and it must
have been <u>My fault</u>. Rick and I talked
at length and they told us that they were not
going to modify their product. Rick however
changed his receiveal methods so that the
Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and
drilled hole were installed in his lower ball
joint stock from that time until the current
time. This supplier made an acceptable ball
joint but they also deleted the copper plating
of the genuine OEM supplier. What happened is
that during storage after manufacturing,
moisture got into the joint and started the
rust process. With only the Nylock nut, it
was only a matter of time before the friction
in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut
and unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also
had this Nylock nut but I've never heard of
anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw
mechanism. Different loading's, different
results.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Mar
8, 2025 at 2:19â?¯PM Joe
Brown <<a
href="mailto:jbbrown1980@gmail.com"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jbbrown1980@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So, I took
my Tiger out yesterday
for a short drive and
as I was just about
home (maybe a hundred
yards from my
driveway) the right
front
suspension dropped to
the ground and I
skidded several yards
before stopping. All
I could think of was
the old stories about
exploding ball
joints. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I walked to
my house and threw a
floor jack and some
jack stands in my
truck and drove back
to the Tiger. I
managed to get the
front end jacked up
and discovered that
the nut on the lower
ball joint was gone
and the lower A arm
had dropped to the
road. My suspension
pieces are at least
30 years old and the
ball joints
were held on with
nylock nuts. I
managed to wrap a
ratchet strap around
the upper and lower
A arms and I was
able to slowly drive
the car into my
garage. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am very
lucky that:Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. I was
going pretty slow at
the time<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. The front
end landed in some
loose gravel on the
side of the
road<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. None of
the body work was
damaged<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4. And
nothing else in the
suspension looks to
be damaged; just
scraped up<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If this had
happened 5 minutes
earlier I would have
been doing 60 on a
winding road and I
would have wound up
in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So I'm
ordering a new set
of ball joints and I
will drill them out
for castle nuts so I
don't have to worry
about a nut working
its way loose
again.  <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joe
Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
Donate: <a
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Archive: <a
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Unsubscribe: <a
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_-5647219269819978616m_899710309926904DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
border="1" cellpadding="0"
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="55"
style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:blue;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><a
href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><image001.jpg></span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="470"
style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:13.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.<a
href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#4453EA">www.avg.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
Donate: <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target="_blank"
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Archive: <a
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Â <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Â <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Donate: <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Archive: <a
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a
href="http://autox.team.net/archive";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Â <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Unsubscribe: <a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Â <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Â <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tom Hall<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>5712 San Luis Court<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(925)462-3876<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">modtiger@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://tigerengineering.net/";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
Donate: <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
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Archive: <a
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre wrap=""
class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">tigers@autox.team.net</a>
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers";
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://autox.team.net/archive";
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
Unsubscribe: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre wrap=""
class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a>
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href="http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Ken Tisdale
303-807-5488</div>
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