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Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two nuts to jam tight?
On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Ron Fraser <rfraser@bluefrog.com> =
wrote:
> Jay
>
>
>
> As the saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff Happens=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> Nylock nuts are generally fine. I would say anyone with Nylock nuts
> should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety check. Seems
> to me I have some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them and
> put a witness mark on them.
>
>
>
> As with any product some are junk. I remember installing a Nylock nut
> and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out. I threw those
> Nylocks away.
>
>
>
> Your situation is most likely OK. I would check the torque on the nuts
> and put a witness mark on them.
>
>
>
> I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because we
> generally think in terms of static conditions. Vehicles are on the move=
,
> vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn. I=E2=80=99m sure there=
are other
> dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond my grade level.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Jay Laifman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM
> *To:* modtiger@comcast.net
> *Cc:* tigers@autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts
>
> I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine. What ever happened to it?
>
>
>
> I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to
> come lose. But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball
> joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only. Are you
> suggesting they are all an accident away?
>
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers <tigers@autox.tea=
m.net>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> It's hard to believe that this is still happening. It started when Rick
> at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties. T=
he
> OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new
> supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted.
> My daughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back
> in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having th=
e
> lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.
>
> Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after it
> happened. Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted this this had
> never happened before and it must have been *My fault*. Rick and I
> talked at length and they told us that they were not going to modify thei=
r
> product. Rick however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut
> was tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower
> ball joint stock from that time until the current time. This supplier ma=
de
> an acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the
> genuine OEM supplier. What happened is that during storage after
> manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the rust process.
> With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time before the frictio=
n
> in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper
> cone.
>
> Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've
> never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.
> Different loading's, different results.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <jbbrown1980@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>
> So, I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just
> about home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front
> suspension dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before
> stopping. All I could think of was the old stories about exploding ball
> joints.
>
>
>
> I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my
> truck and drove back to the Tiger. I managed to get the front end jacked
> up and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the
> lower A arm had dropped to the road. My suspension pieces are at least 3=
0
> years old and the ball joints were held on with nylock nuts. I managed to
> wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to
> slowly drive the car into my garage.
>
>
>
> I am very lucky that:
>
> 1. I was going pretty slow at the time
>
> 2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the road
>
> 3. None of the body work was damaged
>
> 4. And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped =
up
>
>
>
> If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a
> winding road and I would have wound up in a ditch.
>
>
>
> So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for
> castle nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose
> again.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Brown
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers@autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> tigers@autox.team.net
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
>
> --
>
> Tom Hall
>
> ModTiger Engineering LLC
>
> 5712 San Luis Court
>
> Pleasanton, CA 94566
>
> (925)462-3876
>
> modtiger@comcast.net
>
> http://tigerengineering.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers@autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com
>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two nuts to=
jam tight?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM R=
on Fraser <<a href=3D"mailto:rfraser@bluefrog.com";>rfraser@bluefrog.com<=
/a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-5647219269819978=
616"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-5647219269819978616WordSection1">=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jay<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">As the saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff H=
appens=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nylock nuts are generally fine.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I =
would say anyone with Nylock nuts should put a witness mark on them as an e=
asy visual safety check.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the=
front suspension; I will check them and put a witness mark on them.<u></u>=
<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">As with any product some are junk.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I remember installing =
a Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 I threw those Nylocks away.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your situation is most likel=
y OK.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would check the torque on the nuts and put a witness ma=
rk on them.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the problem we have with why the nut came o=
ff is because we generally think in terms of static conditions.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sure there are other dynamic forces working here t=
oo but they are beyond my grade level.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron Fraser<u></u><u></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div>=
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers-bo=
unces@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">tigers-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&g=
t; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1=
:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:modtiger@comcast.net"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">modtiger@comcast.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.t=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re:=
[Tigers] Check Your Nuts<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"> </p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine.=
=C2=A0 What ever happened to it? =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=
am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to come=
lose.=C2=A0 But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball join=
ts were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.=C2=A0 Are you s=
uggesting they are all an accident away? =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"marg=
in-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12pt">On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers <<a href=
=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</=
a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D"marg=
in-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF <u></u>=
<u></u></p><p>It's hard to believe that this is still happening.=C2=A0 =
It started when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in t=
he mid-eighties.=C2=A0 The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and co=
tter keys, but this new supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Ric=
k initially accepted.=C2=A0 My daughter had this "accident" happe=
n in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks fr=
om home, exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, an=
d again luckily at low speed.<u></u><u></u></p><p>Rick arranged a meeting w=
ith reps for this supplier shortly after it happened.=C2=A0 Rick and I sat =
down with them and they insisted this this had never happened before and it=
must have been <u>My fault</u>.=C2=A0 Rick and I talked at length and they=
told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick however cha=
nged his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nu=
t and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from that t=
ime until the current time.=C2=A0 This supplier made an acceptable ball joi=
nt but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM supplier.=C2=
=A0 What happened is that during storage after manufacturing, moisture got =
into the joint and started the rust process.=C2=A0 With only the Nylock nut=
, it was only a matter of time before the friction in the joint started to =
turn the Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <u></u><u></u></p><=
p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I'=
;ve never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.=
=C2=A0 Different loading's, different results.<u></u><u></u></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5=
pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium me=
dium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor=
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:=
5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:me=
dium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:curre=
ntcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;=
margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar 8, 2=
025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <<a href=3D"mailto:jbbrown1980@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jbbrown1980@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>=
</div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-sty=
le:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor=
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><p=
class=3D"MsoNormal">So,=C2=A0 I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short dr=
ive and as I was just about home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) t=
he right front suspension=C2=A0dropped to the ground and I skidded several =
yards before stopping.=C2=A0 All I could think of was the old stories about=
exploding ball joints.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I walked to my ho=
use and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and drove back =
to the Tiger.=C2=A0 I managed to get the front end jacked up and discovered=
that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A arm had drop=
ped to the road.=C2=A0 My suspension pieces are at least 30 years old and t=
he ball joints were=C2=A0held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ratc=
het strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to slowly drive =
the car into my garage.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am very l=
ucky that:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. I wa=
s going pretty slow at the time<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the roa=
d<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">3. None of the body wo=
rk was damaged<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.=C2=A0 =
And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped up<u><=
/u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I wou=
ld have been doing 60 on a winding road and I would have wound up in a ditc=
h.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I'm ordering a new set of ball =
joints and I will drill them out for castle nuts so I don't have to wor=
ry about a nut working its way loose again.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
Joe Brown<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
/div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">__________________=
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_________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></pre><pre><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"=
_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
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//www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><u></u><u></u></pre><=
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u></pre><pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre><pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre></blo=
ckquote><p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Tom Hal=
l<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>=
5712 San Luis Court<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<u></u><u><=
/u></pre><pre>(925)462-3876<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href=3D"mailto:modti=
ger@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">modtiger@comcast.net</a><u></u><u></u></=
pre><pre><a href=3D"http://tigerengineering.net/"; target=3D"_blank">http://=
tigerengineering.net/</a> <u></u><u></u></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>=
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