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Jay
As the saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff Happens=E2=80=9D.
Nylock nuts are generally fine. I would say anyone with Nylock nuts shoul=
d put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety check. Seems to me =
I have some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them and put a wi=
tness mark on them.
As with any product some are junk. I remember installing a Nylock nut and=
as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out. I threw those Nylock=
s away.
Your situation is most likely OK. I would check the torque on the nuts an=
d put a witness mark on them.
I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because we general=
ly think in terms of static conditions. Vehicles are on the move, vibrati=
ons can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn. I=E2=80=99m sure there are othe=
r dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond my grade level.
Ron Fraser
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jay Laifman
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM
To: modtiger@comcast.net
Cc: tigers@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts
I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine. What ever happened to it?
I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to com=
e lose. But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball joints w=
ere sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only. Are you suggesting=
they are all an accident away?
On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.=
=EF=BB=BF
It's hard to believe that this is still happening. It started when Rick at=
Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties. The O=
EM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new supp=
lier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted. My da=
ughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the=
80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having the lower =
A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.
Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after it happen=
ed. Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted this this had never ha=
ppened before and it must have been My fault. Rick and I talked at length =
and they told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick how=
ever changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a c=
astle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock fro=
m that time until the current time. This supplier made an acceptable ball =
joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM supplier.=
What happened is that during storage after manufacturing, moisture got in=
to the joint and started the rust process. With only the Nylock nut, it wa=
s only a matter of time before the friction in the joint started to turn th=
e Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone.
Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've ne=
ver heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism. Diffe=
rent loading's, different results.
On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <jbbrown1980@gmail.com <ma=
ilto:jbbrown1980@gmail.com> > wrote:
So, I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just abou=
t home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front suspension =
dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before stopping. All I c=
ould think of was the old stories about exploding ball joints.
I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truc=
k and drove back to the Tiger. I managed to get the front end jacked up an=
d discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A =
arm had dropped to the road. My suspension pieces are at least 30 years ol=
d and the ball joints were held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ra=
tchet strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to slowly driv=
e the car into my garage.
I am very lucky that:
1. I was going pretty slow at the time
2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the road
3. None of the body work was damaged
4. And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped up=
If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a wind=
ing road and I would have wound up in a ditch.
So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for cast=
le nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose again. =
Regards,
Joe Brown
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--
Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
5712 San Luis Court
Pleasanton, CA 94566
(925)462-3876
http://tigerengineering.net/
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jay<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As the =
saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff Happens=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Nylock nuts =
are generally fine.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would say anyone with Nylock nuts =
should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety =
check.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the front =
suspension; I will check them and put a witness mark on =
them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As with any product some are junk.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I =
remember installing a Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon =
insert popped out.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I threw those Nylocks =
away.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Your situation is most likely OK.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would =
check the torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on =
them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I think the problem we have with why the nut came off =
is because we generally think in terms of static conditions.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to =
turn.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sure there are other dynamic forces =
working here too but they are beyond my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
<tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay =
Laifman<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
modtiger@comcast.net<br><b>Cc:</b> =
tigers@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your =
Nuts<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal> </p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine. What ever =
happened to it? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to =
come lose. But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower =
ball joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only. =
Are you suggesting they are all an accident away? =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom =
Hall via Tigers <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><p>It's hard to believe that =
this is still happening. It started when Rick at Sunbeam =
Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties. The =
OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new =
supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially =
accepted. My daughter had this "accident" happen in her =
Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, =
exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and =
again luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Rick arranged a meeting =
with reps for this supplier shortly after it happened. Rick and I =
sat down with them and they insisted this this had never happened before =
and it must have been <u>My fault</u>. Rick and I talked at length =
and they told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick =
however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed =
and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint =
stock from that time until the current time. This supplier made an =
acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the =
genuine OEM supplier. What happened is that during storage after =
manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the rust =
process. With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time =
before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and =
unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Conversely, the upper =
ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've never heard of anyone =
loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism. Different =
loading's, different results.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar =
8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <<a =
href=3D"mailto:jbbrown1980@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">jbbrown1980@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So, I =
took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just about =
home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front =
suspension dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before =
stopping. All I could think of was the old stories about exploding =
ball joints. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I walked to =
my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and =
drove back to the Tiger. I managed to get the front end jacked up =
and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the =
lower A arm had dropped to the road. My suspension pieces are at =
least 30 years old and the ball joints were held on with nylock =
nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A =
arms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my =
garage. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am very =
lucky that: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1. I was =
going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2. The =
front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the =
road<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3. None of =
the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>4. =
And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped =
up<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If this had =
happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road =
and I would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So I'm =
ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle =
nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose =
again. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p=
></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe =
Brown<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________=
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