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What type plug wires are you using? Some Pertronic units will not work =
well with solid copper wires and only work using resistor type wires.
From: Andrew Uprichard=20
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:57 AM
To: 'Keith Richard Stewart' ; triumphs@autox.team.net=20
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Won't Start
Hey, Keith:
=20
I think we are still in =E2=80=9Cinformation gathering mode=E2=80=9D J
=20
You say =E2=80=9Cthere were only 3 cylinders getting spark=E2=80=9D, but =
then =E2=80=9CI also had spark on #2, #3, and #4=E2=80=9D, so it sounds =
like you do have a spark at all 4 plugs? One thing you do not mention =
is the state of the plugs: are they wet and fouled, suggesting =
flooding?
=20
Have you done a compression test?
=20
My experience with Pertronix is when they fail there is no spark, but =
maybe someone else will chime in on whether a failure could still have a =
spark, albeit insufficient to get the car to run.
=20
Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan
=20
From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of =
Keith Richard Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:46 PM
To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: [TR] TR4 Won't Start
=20
When I took the TR4 (1962) out of winter storage, it started on the =
second turn of the key. I drove home fine, no problems. I cleaned up the =
car for a show last weekend. When I went to start, it was hard starting, =
did catch and ran rough for a few seconds before stalling. The starter =
is a hi-torque starter and had lots of =E2=80=9Coomph=E2=80=9D. The =
rough running was like it was on two cylinders or less. After several =
more attempts to get it started, including some starting fluid spray, I =
put the battery charger on to make sure the battery was charged fully. I =
attempted a start with the charger on the =E2=80=9Cstart=E2=80=9D =
setting with no luck. While looking over the engine compartment for a =
loose wire or bad connection, I noticed substantial oil leak around the =
filter adapter. The location was such that it appeared the seeping was =
between the oil filter head and the adapter.
=20
Although not associated with the non-start issue, I figured I would take =
care of the oil leak, thinking it was the seal between the adapter and =
the filter head. I drained the oil, removed the filter, installed a new =
filter and filled with oil. It did seem there was a bit of fuel odor =
from the oil. I did install a new fuel pump two years ago so I will =
check that later. The fuel pump was one of TRF=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CMade =
in Italy=E2=80=9D pumps. The additional start attempts since then have =
not produced any oil seeping out.
=20
Back to the start problem. The carbs are SU HS6, as on the TR4A. I =
removed the fuel line at the float bowl and gas pumped out during an =
attempted start. The ignition is a Pertronix. When I removed the rotor, =
it looked OK, but I had a spare in a tune up kit and a separate, red =
rotor, so I tried both with no luck. To make sure the battery was =
getting at least 10v to the Pertronix, I put in a new battery that I =
had. No luck. I removed plug #1, grounded it on the thermostat housing =
bolt and tried a start. I had a spark right away and almost immediately =
the car started up. Ran roughly =E2=80=93 there were only three =
cylinders getting spark.
=20
I shut off the engine, replaced the spark plug, and tried to start. No =
luck. Very baffling. I also had spark on #2, #3, and #4. With #2 =
removed, car starts, Ditto with #3 and #4 removed. Once the plug is back =
in, the car will not start. Voltage at rest is 12.75v (have not charged =
it again after several start attempts over the past few days) and drops =
to 11v during starter engagement.
=20
I had a new coil on hand so I tried it as well. No luck. Connections =
from the coil to ignition switch and coil to Pertronix are clean and =
secure.
=20
All plug leads and the distributor lead are clean and secure. Battery =
connections are clean and secure. Battery putting out 12-14v. =
Connections at the starter solenoid and the starter are clean and =
secure.
=20
I think that is everything I have tried to date. Any suggestions are =
most welcome.
=20
=20
Keith Stewart
keithstewart@bell.net
=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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** triumphs@autox.team.net **
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<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>What type plug wires are you using? Some Pertronic units will not =
work well=20
with solid copper wires and only work using resistor type wires.</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dauprichard@uprichard.net>Andrew Uprichard</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dkeithstewart@bell.net>'Keith Richard =
Stewart'</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dtriumphs@autox.team.net>triumphs@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TR] TR4 Won't Start</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New =
Roman","serif"'>Hey,=20
Keith:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New =
Roman","serif"'>I think=20
we are still in =E2=80=9Cinformation gathering mode=E2=80=9D =
</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: wingdings">J</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New =
Roman","serif"'>You say=20
=E2=80=9Cthere were only 3 cylinders getting spark=E2=80=9D, but then =
=E2=80=9C</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>I=20
also had spark on #2, #3, and #4=E2=80=9D, so it sounds like you do have =
a spark at all=20
4 plugs? One thing you do not mention is the state of the =
plugs: are=20
they wet and fouled, suggesting flooding?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>Have you done a compression=20
test?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>My experience with Pertronix is =
when they=20
fail there is no spark, but maybe someone else will chime in on whether =
a=20
failure could still have a spark, albeit insufficient to get the car to=20
run.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>Andrew =
Uprichard<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>Jackson, Michigan</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: =
#1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; =
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Triumphs=20
[mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith =
Richard=20
Stewart<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
triumphs@autox.team.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TR] TR4 Won't=20
Start<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>When I took the TR4 (1962) out =
of winter=20
storage, it started on the second turn of the key. I drove home fine, no =
problems. I cleaned up the car for a show last weekend. When I went to =
start, it=20
was hard starting, did catch and ran rough for a few seconds before =
stalling.=20
The starter is a hi-torque starter and had lots of =
=E2=80=9Coomph=E2=80=9D. The rough running=20
was like it was on two cylinders or less. After several more attempts to =
get it=20
started, including some starting fluid spray, I put the battery charger =
on to=20
make sure the battery was charged fully. I attempted a start with the =
charger on=20
the =E2=80=9Cstart=E2=80=9D setting with no luck. While looking over the =
engine compartment for=20
a loose wire or bad connection, I noticed substantial oil leak around =
the filter=20
adapter. The location was such that it appeared the seeping was between =
the oil=20
filter head and the adapter.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>Although not associated with the =
non-start=20
issue, I figured I would take care of the oil leak, thinking it was the =
seal=20
between the adapter and the filter head. I drained the oil, removed the =
filter,=20
installed a new filter and filled with oil. It did seem there was a bit =
of fuel=20
odor from the oil. I did install a new fuel pump two years ago so I will =
check=20
that later. The fuel pump was one of TRF=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CMade in =
Italy=E2=80=9D pumps. The additional=20
start attempts since then have not produced any oil seeping=20
out.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>Back to the start problem. =
The carbs=20
are SU HS6, as on the TR4A. I removed the fuel line at the float bowl =
and gas=20
pumped out during an attempted start. The ignition is a Pertronix. When =
I=20
removed the rotor, it looked OK, but I had a spare in a tune up kit and =
a=20
separate, red rotor, so I tried both with no luck. To make sure the =
battery was=20
getting at least 10v to the Pertronix, I put in a new battery that I =
had. No=20
luck. I removed plug #1, grounded it on the thermostat housing bolt and =
tried a=20
start. I had a spark right away and almost immediately the car started =
up. Ran=20
roughly =E2=80=93 there were only three cylinders getting =
spark.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>I shut off the engine, replaced =
the spark=20
plug, and tried to start. No luck. Very baffling. I also had spark on =
#2, #3,=20
and #4. With #2 removed, car starts, Ditto with #3 and #4 removed. Once =
the plug=20
is back in, the car will not start. Voltage at rest is 12.75v (have not =
charged=20
it again after several start attempts over the past few days) and drops =
to 11v=20
during starter engagement.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>I had a new coil on hand so I =
tried it as=20
well. No luck. Connections from the coil to ignition switch and coil to=20
Pertronix are clean and secure.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>All plug leads and the =
distributor lead are=20
clean and secure. Battery connections are clean and secure. Battery =
putting out=20
12-14v. Connections at the starter solenoid and the starter are clean =
and=20
secure.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA>I think that is everything I =
have tried to=20
date. Any suggestions are most welcome.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA style=3D"mso-fareast-language: =
en-ca">Keith=20
Stewart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-CA=20
style=3D"mso-fareast-language: =
en-ca">keithstewart@bell.net<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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