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I checked for spark on all four plugs, one at a time. Each plug showed
spark. While the plug was out and being tested, the engine started each time
a plug was tested. The plugs were damp and smelled of gas. Have not checked
compression yet, but will do so.
Keith
From: Andrew Uprichard <auprichard@uprichard.net>
Sent: June 13, 2019 8:58 AM
To: 'Keith Richard Stewart' <keithstewart@bell.net>; triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [TR] TR4 Won't Start
Hey, Keith:
I think we are still in "information gathering mode" :)
You say "there were only 3 cylinders getting spark", but then "I also had
spark on #2, #3, and #4", so it sounds like you do have a spark at all 4
plugs? One thing you do not mention is the state of the plugs: are they
wet and fouled, suggesting flooding?
Have you done a compression test?
My experience with Pertronix is when they fail there is no spark, but maybe
someone else will chime in on whether a failure could still have a spark,
albeit insufficient to get the car to run.
Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan
From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith
Richard Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:46 PM
Subject: [TR] TR4 Won't Start
When I took the TR4 (1962) out of winter storage, it started on the second
turn of the key. I drove home fine, no problems. I cleaned up the car for a
show last weekend. When I went to start, it was hard starting, did catch and
ran rough for a few seconds before stalling. The starter is a hi-torque
starter and had lots of "oomph". The rough running was like it was on two
cylinders or less. After several more attempts to get it started, including
some starting fluid spray, I put the battery charger on to make sure the
battery was charged fully. I attempted a start with the charger on the
"start" setting with no luck. While looking over the engine compartment for
a loose wire or bad connection, I noticed substantial oil leak around the
filter adapter. The location was such that it appeared the seeping was
between the oil filter head and the adapter.
Although not associated with the non-start issue, I figured I would take
care of the oil leak, thinking it was the seal between the adapter and the
filter head. I drained the oil, removed the filter, installed a new filter
and filled with oil. It did seem there was a bit of fuel odor from the oil.
I did install a new fuel pump two years ago so I will check that later. The
fuel pump was one of TRF's "Made in Italy" pumps. The additional start
attempts since then have not produced any oil seeping out.
Back to the start problem. The carbs are SU HS6, as on the TR4A. I removed
the fuel line at the float bowl and gas pumped out during an attempted
start. The ignition is a Pertronix. When I removed the rotor, it looked OK,
but I had a spare in a tune up kit and a separate, red rotor, so I tried
both with no luck. To make sure the battery was getting at least 10v to the
Pertronix, I put in a new battery that I had. No luck. I removed plug #1,
grounded it on the thermostat housing bolt and tried a start. I had a spark
right away and almost immediately the car started up. Ran roughly - there
were only three cylinders getting spark.
I shut off the engine, replaced the spark plug, and tried to start. No luck.
Very baffling. I also had spark on #2, #3, and #4. With #2 removed, car
starts, Ditto with #3 and #4 removed. Once the plug is back in, the car will
not start. Voltage at rest is 12.75v (have not charged it again after
several start attempts over the past few days) and drops to 11v during
starter engagement.
I had a new coil on hand so I tried it as well. No luck. Connections from
the coil to ignition switch and coil to Pertronix are clean and secure.
All plug leads and the distributor lead are clean and secure. Battery
connections are clean and secure. Battery putting out 12-14v. Connections at
the starter solenoid and the starter are clean and secure.
I think that is everything I have tried to date. Any suggestions are most
welcome.
Keith Stewart
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I checked =
for spark on all four plugs, one at a time. Each plug showed spark. =
While the plug was out and being tested, the engine started each time a =
plug was tested. The plugs were damp and smelled of gas. Have not =
checked compression yet, but will do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Andrew Uprichard =
<auprichard@uprichard.net> <br><b>Sent:</b> June 13, 2019 8:58 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Keith Richard Stewart' <keithstewart@bell.net>; =
triumphs@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [TR] TR4 Won't =
Start<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Hey, =
Keith:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I think we =
are still in “information gathering mode” </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>You say =
“there were only 3 cylinders getting spark”, but then =
“</span>I also had spark on #2, #3, and #4”, so it sounds =
like you do have a spark at all 4 plugs? One thing you do not =
mention is the state of the plugs: are they wet and fouled, =
suggesting flooding?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Have you =
done a compression test?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My =
experience with Pertronix is when they fail there is no spark, but maybe =
someone else will chime in on whether a failure could still have a =
spark, albeit insufficient to get the car to run.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Andrew =
Uprichard<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Jackson, Michigan<span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></=
b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Triumphs [<a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:triumphs-bounces@a=
utox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith Richard =
Stewart<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br><b=
>Subject:</b> [TR] TR4 Won't Start<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>When I took the TR4 (1962) out of winter storage, it =
started on the second turn of the key. I drove home fine, no problems. I =
cleaned up the car for a show last weekend. When I went to start, it was =
hard starting, did catch and ran rough for a few seconds before =
stalling. The starter is a hi-torque starter and had lots of =
“oomph”. The rough running was like it was on two cylinders =
or less. After several more attempts to get it started, including some =
starting fluid spray, I put the battery charger on to make sure the =
battery was charged fully. I attempted a start with the charger on the =
“start” setting with no luck. While looking over the engine =
compartment for a loose wire or bad connection, I noticed substantial =
oil leak around the filter adapter. The location was such that it =
appeared the seeping was between the oil filter head and the =
adapter.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Although not associated with the non-start issue, I =
figured I would take care of the oil leak, thinking it was the seal =
between the adapter and the filter head. I drained the oil, removed the =
filter, installed a new filter and filled with oil. It did seem there =
was a bit of fuel odor from the oil. I did install a new fuel pump two =
years ago so I will check that later. The fuel pump was one of =
TRF’s “Made in Italy” pumps. The additional start =
attempts since then have not produced any oil seeping =
out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Back to the start problem. The carbs are SU HS6, =
as on the TR4A. I removed the fuel line at the float bowl and gas pumped =
out during an attempted start. The ignition is a Pertronix. When I =
removed the rotor, it looked OK, but I had a spare in a tune up kit and =
a separate, red rotor, so I tried both with no luck. To make sure the =
battery was getting at least 10v to the Pertronix, I put in a new =
battery that I had. No luck. I removed plug #1, grounded it on the =
thermostat housing bolt and tried a start. I had a spark right away and =
almost immediately the car started up. Ran roughly – there were =
only three cylinders getting spark.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I shut off =
the engine, replaced the spark plug, and tried to start. No luck. Very =
baffling. I also had spark on #2, #3, and #4. With #2 removed, car =
starts, Ditto with #3 and #4 removed. Once the plug is back in, the car =
will not start. Voltage at rest is 12.75v (have not charged it again =
after several start attempts over the past few days) and drops to 11v =
during starter engagement.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I had a new =
coil on hand so I tried it as well. No luck. Connections from the coil =
to ignition switch and coil to Pertronix are clean and =
secure.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>All plug leads and the distributor lead are clean and =
secure. Battery connections are clean and secure. Battery putting out =
12-14v. Connections at the starter solenoid and the starter are clean =
and secure.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I think that is everything I have tried to date. Any =
suggestions are most welcome.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Keith =
Stewart<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"mailto:keithstewart@bell.net";>keithstewart@bell.net</a><o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>
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