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Hank,
Good point. I'm on record being very 'anti-County,' having had hugely
disruptive failures with their water pumps. The two rears are 'no-name'
so possibly County, and the one front cyl I put in is Moss 'Classic
Gold,' so possibly County (IIRC, it said 'Taiwan' on the box). The other
three fronts are, AFAIK, original Girling with, yes, probably seal kits
from Moss (we redid the brakes during restoration, and IIRC my dad did
most of the work*). I'm loathing having to pull a front drum and
re-pack, shim etc. again but will do so if no other solution works (I've
already checked the rears for leaks). I did use a 'no-name' rear cyl on
my BJ8, but so far it's given me no issues (that I know of).
*Side note: When I went to install one of the new rear cylinders the
fitting would not go in easily, even though I was extremely careful not
to cross-thread. Thinking I got a cyl with a bunged thread I ordered
another, and had the same problem! I finally realized that when my dad
rebuilt the brake system he used new steel lines, but likely re-used the
(steel) fittings (correct fittings are available, but not common). On
close inspection, the threads of the fitting were rust-colored, and even
when tested on the bench did not want to screw in as easily as they
should have. Even a thin coat of rust presents high resistance to
torquing so I've taken to putting a VERY thin application of high-temp
anti-seize on the threads ONLY (I can hear the howls of 'heresy!' and
"you're gonna die!" already ;). I use less than a BB in size of
anti-seize and put it nowhere near the sealing surface, so contamination
of the fluid, seal failures, etc. is unlikely (I know of some owners who
use teflon tape, but I could see that conceivably posing a problem). Not
only should this prevent rust-galling of steel-steel threads, it should
make the fittings much easier to remove, so rounding out the nut is less
likely. Seizing due to rust shouldn't be an issue with cupro-nickel
lines and brass fittings. As usual, the interwebs are in violent
disagreement on the subject (examples):
https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/
https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/
Bob
On 4/25/2021 9:49 AM, gradea1@charter.net wrote:
> Bob-one troublesome word you mentioned in relation to the wheel
> cylinders is "new." These must be the County Brand...spelled China. If
> you did get lucky, and they are good cylinders, what about the other
> three for the front? Rebuilt with Moss kits? I have seen the problem
> with the seals being incorrect for the bore. For instance, on a
> Sprite master, one push of the pedal stuck the seal in the rear of the
> casing and never again to function. Replacement parts today are to be
> suspect in an obscure issue like you are having. Sad Healey tales..Hank
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Bob Spidell"
> To: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"
> Cc:
> Sent: Saturday April 24 2021 6:45:43PM
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem
>
> (non) progress report:
>
> Thinking Bill probably had the explanation, I clamped off the RF flex
> line--the wheel I'd replaced the cylinder on--per Michael's suggestion
> and, Voila!, a nice hard pedal. Thinking also that I hadn't expelled a
> bubble, like Bill also suggested, I increased the pressure on my
> pressure bleeding rig and bled all wheels again. Still, a nice hard
> pedal, so I fired up my BJ8 to get it out of the garage so I could
> pressure wash the undercarriage of the BN2 and take it (BJ8) for a
> warm-up spin. Halfway around the 'block,' about 5 miles from home it
> started running very rough so I pulled into a covid-closed restaurant
> parking lot and popped the bonnet; coolant all over the passenger side
> of the engine bay. It appears the gasket under the brass shut-off
> valve for the heater hoses sprung a leak, so a call to AAA was in
> order. After getting the BJ8 flat-bedded home I washed the 100's
> underside, put on the new wheels and tires and hop in .. brake pedal
> goes to the floor! Since I could get some brakes if I pumped the pedal
> a couple times I took a chance on a short, abridged spin around a
> smaller block--the new wheels and tires ride fantastic, and no
> 'scuttle shake' detected--then parked it.
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I meant to try the
> 'hold-the-pedal-to-the-floor-with-a-board' technique, but by EOD I was
> so beat I forgot. I've had trouble bleeding brakes on the BJ8, but the
> BN2 has generally cooperated until now. Damned if I can explain why I
> can get a good hard pedal, which proceeds to go soft from just
> sitting. Good thing I love these cars.
>
> Bob
>
> On 4/23/2021 9:06 PM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE wrote:
>
> The problem with the double leading edge brakes on the 100s and
> 100-6s is that the bleeder screw is at a low point in the system
> so it takes a little extra effort expel any entrained air. You
> probably got a pretty good slug when you changed the wheel
> cylinder. Probably keep bleeding that wheel and use various
> techniques until you find the one that actually moves the air out
> of the bleeder.
>
> Bill Lawrence
> BN1 #554
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob
> Spidell via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:04 AM
> *To:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem
> Listers,
>
> I have a problem with my BN2's brakes that is driving (heh) me up the
> wall. Here's what I've done:
>
> - new shoes and cylinders in both rear wheels
> - one new cylinder in one front wheel (there's a total of 4 in the 2
> front wheels)
> - new master cylinder
>
> I hadn't touched the M/C, so after all the installs I just
> pressure bled
> as I usually do (this has worked well on my BJ8 for decades and a
> couple
> times for the BN2). At first, I got decent pedal then, after a
> period of
> time I lost it; the pedal would go to the floor with only slight
> pressure (probably from the return springs). Thinking it could only be
> the M/C, I sprung for a new TRW brand M/C but after installing it and
> bleeding I got the same results. I've put 2 full quarts of Castrol's
> finest 'synthetic' DoT4 through the system and tried vacuum
> bleeding and
> old-fashioned 'pump and hold' method; same result for all methods. I'm
> not losing fluid as far as I can tell, and the pedal will pump up
> a bit
> with a half-dozen or so strokes, but will go back to the floor after
> some time.
>
> Any and all ideas and suggestions accepted and welcomed.
>
> TIA,
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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Hank,<br>
<br>
Good point. I'm on record being very 'anti-County,' having had
hugely disruptive failures with their water pumps. The two rears are
'no-name' so possibly County, and the one front cyl I put in is
Moss 'Classic Gold,' so possibly County (IIRC, it said 'Taiwan' on
the box). The other three fronts are, AFAIK, original Girling with,
yes, probably seal kits from Moss (we redid the brakes during
restoration, and IIRC my dad did most of the work*). I'm loathing
having to pull a front drum and re-pack, shim etc. again but will do
so if no other solution works (I've already checked the rears for
leaks). I did use a 'no-name' rear cyl on my BJ8, but so far it's
given me no issues (that I know of).<br>
<br>
*Side note: When I went to install one of the new rear cylinders the
fitting would not go in easily, even though I was extremely careful
not to cross-thread. Thinking I got a cyl with a bunged thread I
ordered another, and had the same problem! I finally realized that
when my dad rebuilt the brake system he used new steel lines, but
likely re-used the (steel) fittings (correct fittings are available,
but not common). On close inspection, the threads of the fitting
were rust-colored, and even when tested on the bench did not want to
screw in as easily as they should have. Even a thin coat of rust
presents high resistance to torquing so I've taken to putting a VERY
thin application of high-temp anti-seize on the threads ONLY (I can
hear the howls of 'heresy!' and "you're gonna die!" already ;). I
use less than a BB in size of anti-seize and put it nowhere near the
sealing surface, so contamination of the fluid, seal failures, etc.
is unlikely (I know of some owners who use teflon tape, but I could
see that conceivably posing a problem). Not only should this prevent
rust-galling of steel-steel threads, it should make the fittings
much easier to remove, so rounding out the nut is less likely.
Seizing due to rust shouldn't be an issue with cupro-nickel lines
and brass fittings. As usual, the interwebs are in violent
disagreement on the subject (examples):<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/";>https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/</a><br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/";>https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/</a><br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/25/2021 9:49 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gradea1@charter.net";>gradea1@charter.net</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1880631d3f5d3f0480894f8c238866efce8c613c@webmail">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Bob-one troublesome word you mentioned in relation to the wheel
cylinders is "new." These must be the County Brand...spelled
China. If you did get lucky, and they are good cylinders, what
about the other three for the front? Rebuilt with Moss kits? I
have seen the problem with the seals being incorrect for the
bore. For instance, on a Sprite master, one push of the pedal
stuck the seal in the rear of the casing and never again to
function. Replacement parts today are to be suspect in an obscure
issue like you are having. Sad Healey tales..Hank<br>
<br>
<p>-----------------------------------------</p>
From: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net><br>
To: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"<br>
Cc: <br>
Sent: Saturday April 24 2021 6:45:43PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem<br>
<br>
(non) progress report:<br>
<br>
Thinking Bill probably had the explanation, I clamped off the RF
flex line--the wheel I'd replaced the cylinder on--per Michael's
suggestion and, Voila!, a nice hard pedal. Thinking also that I
hadn't expelled a bubble, like Bill also suggested, I increased
the
pressure on my pressure bleeding rig and bled all wheels again.
Still, a nice hard pedal, so I fired up my BJ8 to get it out of
the
garage so I could pressure wash the undercarriage of the BN2 and
take it (BJ8) for a warm-up spin. Halfway around the 'block,'
about
5 miles from home it started running very rough so I pulled into
a
covid-closed restaurant parking lot and popped the bonnet;
coolant
all over the passenger side of the engine bay. It appears the
gasket under the brass shut-off valve for the heater hoses
sprung a
leak, so a call to AAA was in order. After getting the BJ8
flat-bedded home I washed the 100's underside, put on the new
wheels and tires and hop in .. brake pedal goes to the floor!
Since I could get some brakes if I pumped the pedal a couple
times
I took a chance on a short, abridged spin around a smaller
block--the new wheels and tires ride fantastic, and no 'scuttle
shake' detected--then parked it.<br>
<br>
Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I meant to try the
'hold-the-pedal-to-the-floor-with-a-board' technique, but by EOD
I
was so beat I forgot. I've had trouble bleeding brakes on the
BJ8,
but the BN2 has generally cooperated until now. Damned if I can
explain why I can get a good hard pedal, which proceeds to go
soft
from just sitting. Good thing I love these cars.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/23/2021 9:06 PM, WILLIAM B
LAWRENCE wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
The problem with the double leading edge brakes on the 100s
and
100-6s is that the bleeder screw is at a low point in the
system so
it takes a little extra effort expel any entrained air. You
probably got a pretty good slug when you changed the wheel
cylinder. Probably keep bleeding that wheel and use various
techniques until you find the one that actually moves the
air out
of the bleeder.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
Bill Lawrence</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
BN1 #554</div>
<hr style="width:98%;">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt;" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
moz-do-not-send="true"><healeys-bounces@autox.team.net></a>
on behalf of Bob Spidell via Healeys <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
moz-do-not-send="true"><healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Healeys <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
moz-do-not-send="true"><healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem</font>
<div>Â </div>
</div>
<div class="BodyFragment">
<div class="PlainText"><font size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt;">Listers,<br>
<br>
I have a problem with my BN2's brakes that is driving
(heh) me up
the<br>
wall. Here's what I've done:<br>
<br>
- new shoes and cylinders in both rear wheels<br>
- one new cylinder in one front wheel (there's a total
of 4 in the
2<br>
front wheels)<br>
- new master cylinder<br>
<br>
I hadn't touched the M/C, so after all the installs I
just pressure
bled<br>
as I usually do (this has worked well on my BJ8 for
decades and a
couple<br>
times for the BN2). At first, I got decent pedal then,
after a
period of<br>
time I lost it; the pedal would go to the floor with
only
slight<br>
pressure (probably from the return springs). Thinking
it could only
be<br>
the M/C, I sprung for a new TRW brand M/C but after
installing it
and<br>
bleeding I got the same results. I've put 2 full
quarts of
Castrol's<br>
finest 'synthetic' DoT4 through the system and tried
vacuum
bleeding and<br>
old-fashioned 'pump and hold' method; same result for
all methods.
I'm<br>
not losing fluid as far as I can tell, and the pedal
will pump up a
bit<br>
with a half-dozen or so strokes, but will go back to
the floor
after<br>
some time.<br>
<br>
Any and all ideas and suggestions accepted and
welcomed.<br>
<br>
TIA,<br>
Bob<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</bspidell@comcast.net>
</blockquote>
<br>
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