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I think alot depends on where the system finds ist balance point.
If more flow removes heat quicker from the engine maybe the outlet =
temperature of the block is lower?
So the difference of the radiator outlet might not be so much of a =
problem?
The water stays shorter in the block and don=E2=80=99t pick up that much =
temperature?
=20
Interesting thing to test.
=20
Cheers
Chris
=20
Von: Bill Babcock [mailto:ponobill@gmail.com]=20
Gesendet: Montag, 11. Juli 2016 23:41
An: MadMarx
Cc: Mordy Dunst; van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be; fot@autox.team.net
Betreff: Re: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
=20
Well, you=E2=80=99ll need to get comfortable with a higher no-load =
temperature, because the radiator outlet temperature will be high.=20
=20
Two factors to consider: Heat, which is the amount of energy =
transferred, and temperature, which relates to heat transfer only in =
terms of the differential temperature. Slow speed means less mass flow =
and therefore less heat transfer but a higher differential temperature =
across the radiator, high speed means more heat transfer but less =
differential temperature across the radiator.=20
=20
On Jul 10, 2016, at 2:54 PM, MadMarx <tr4racing@googlemail.com> wrote:
=20
Hi Mordy,
=20
there are two theories about cooling and water flow.
=20
1. Slow speed of the water in the radiator to give the water time =
to cool. That means slowing down
2. The other theory sais maximizing the flow, no restriction, high =
coolant speed.
=20
In a way I prefer the 2nd way. And I=E2=80=99ll test this version in the =
coming weeks. I=E2=80=99ll remove the restrictors and see what happens.
=20
Cheers
Chris
=20
Von: Mordy Dunst [mailto:gasket.works@gte.net]=20
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Juli 2016 22:45
An: tr4racing@googlemail.com; van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Betreff: Re: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
=20
Chris your the engineer....
Heat produced vs heat removed. There will be a steady state at some =
point. You would like it lower. Don"t underestimate the headgasket =
component of channeling coolant flow. In the TR4 motor i made the =
coolant holes different than original to allow the mass flow of water to =
occur from the rear of the motor forward. I also put a pressure gauge =
on my coolant. If the pressure is too low it will not cool as =
efficiently either. I don"t know what the coolant dwell time with in =
the head needs to be to in order to adsorb the heat generated. Nor the =
dwell time in the radiator. There certainly calcs for all this stuff. =20
=20
MDunst
Headgasket.com <http://headgasket.com/>=20
626.628.3777 F
Triple R Munitions, Inc
626.201.9471 T
FFL 6,7 SOT 2
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
tr4racing@googlemail.com>
van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>; 'MadMarx' < =
Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2016 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
I have a 160F thermostat installed.
Next test will be without any restrictions, maximum flow and see how it =
goes with that.
=20
Chris
=20
Von: Marcel Van Mulders [mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be =
Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Juli 2016 13:01
An: 'MadMarx' <tr4racing@googlemail.com>
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Betreff: RE: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
=20
My diesel BMW runs always at 100=C2=B0C/212=C2=B0F when hot. What =
coolant thermostat is in it? If the T=C2=B0 is steady at 212=C2=B0F, =
perhaps it is intentionally done so with a 212=C2=B0 thermostat.
Marcel
=20
_____ =20
Van: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Namens MadMarx
Verzonden: donderdag 7 juli 2016 19:21
Aan: 'FOT List'
Onderwerp: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
Hi guys,
=20
My TR8 is running way too hot about 212F at full speed and at idle the =
temps are getting that high also. I have no idea to get them down.
Radiator core is 68x48cm x 5 cm. I suppose that should be enough. I've =
experiment with different restrictor plates with no change. Changing =
pump speed didn't help either. The difference between radiator in and =
outlet is 10=C2=B0C (50F). Not enough I would say. Maybe making the pump =
more slower? It was running on a ratio of 0.8 slower than crank, =
currently 1:1 speed. Any ideas? 10 Liters are circulating.
=20
Cheers
Chris
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works@gte.net
_______________________________________________
<http://www.fot-racing.com/> http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: <http://www.team.net/archive> http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: <http://www.team.net/forums> http://www.team.net/forums
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com> =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I think alot depends on where the system finds ist balance =
point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If more flow removes heat quicker from the engine maybe the outlet =
temperature of the block is lower?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So the difference of the radiator outlet might not be so much of a =
problem?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The water stays shorter in the block and don=E2=80=99t pick up that =
much temperature?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Interesting thing to test.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Bill Babcock [mailto:ponobill@gmail.com] <br><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, =
11. Juli 2016 23:41<br><b>An:</b> MadMarx<br><b>Cc:</b> Mordy Dunst; =
van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be; fot@autox.team.net<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: =
[Fot] TR8 Water temperature<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Well, =
you=E2=80=99ll need to get comfortable with a higher no-load =
temperature, because the radiator outlet temperature will be =
high. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Two factors to consider: Heat, which is the amount of =
energy transferred, and temperature, which relates to heat transfer only =
in terms of the differential temperature. Slow speed means less mass =
flow and therefore less heat transfer but a higher differential =
temperature across the radiator, high speed means more heat transfer but =
less differential temperature across the =
radiator. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 10, 2016, at 2:54 PM, MadMarx <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";>tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Mordy,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>there are =
two theories about cooling and water =
flow.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1.</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Slow speed =
of the water in the radiator to give the water time to cool. That means =
slowing down</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>2.</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The other =
theory sais maximizing the flow, no restriction, high coolant =
speed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In a way I =
prefer the 2<sup>nd</sup><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>way. And I=E2=80=99ll test =
this version in the coming weeks. I=E2=80=99ll remove the restrictors =
and see what happens.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Cheers</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chris</span=
><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Von:</span>=
</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Mordy =
Dunst [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gasket.works@gte.net";>mailto:gasket.works@gte.net</a>]<spa=
n class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Sonntag, 10. Juli 2016 =
22:45<br><b>An:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";>tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>;<sp=
an class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";>van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Betreff:<=
/b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Fot] TR8 Water =
temperature</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Chris your =
the engineer....<br><br>Heat produced vs heat removed. There will =
be a steady state at some point. You would like it lower. =
Don"t underestimate the headgasket component of channeling coolant =
flow. In the TR4 motor i made the coolant holes different than =
original to allow the mass flow of water to occur from the rear of the =
motor forward. I also put a pressure gauge on my =
coolant. If the pressure is too low it will not cool as =
efficiently either. I don"t know what the coolant dwell =
time with in the head needs to be to in order to adsorb the heat =
generated. Nor the dwell time in the radiator. There =
certainly calcs for all this stuff. <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></=
div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>MDunst<br><a =
href=3D"http://headgasket.com/";>Headgasket.com</a><br>626.628.3777 =
F<br>Triple R Munitions, Inc<br>626.201.9471 T<br>FFL 6,7 SOT =
2<br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----Original=
Message-----<br>From: MadMarx <</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:windowtext'>tr4racing@googlemail.com</span></a></span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>><br>To: =
'Marcel Van Mulders' <</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:windowtext'>van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</span></a></span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>>; =
'MadMarx' <</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:windowtext'>tr4racing@googlemail.com</span></a></span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>><br>Cc: =
fot <</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:windowtext'>fot@autox.team.net</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>><br>Sent:=
Sat, Jul 9, 2016 8:21 pm<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] TR8 Water =
temperature</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_dc1d0451-f169-48f2-a7f8-1097a48363d1"><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I have a =
160F thermostat installed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Next test =
will be without any restrictions, maximum flow and see how it goes with =
that.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chris</span=
><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Von:</span>=
</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </spa=
n></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Marcel Van =
Mulders [<a =
href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be?";>mailto:van.mulders.marcel@=
telenet.be</a>]<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Samstag, 9. Juli 2016 =
13:01<br><b>An:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>'MadMarx' <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";>tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>>=
<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Betreff:<=
/b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>RE: [Fot] TR8 Water =
temperature</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>My=
diesel BMW runs always at 100=C2=B0C/212=C2=B0F when hot. What coolant =
thermostat is in it? If the T=C2=B0 is steady at 212=C2=B0F, perhaps =
it is intentionally done so with a 212=C2=B0 =
thermostat.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Ma=
rcel</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DNL><hr size=3D5 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><div =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DNL =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span><=
/b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span lang=3DNL =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span=
></span><span lang=3DNL =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Fot [<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><b>Namens<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></b>MadMarx<br><b>Verzonden:</=
b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>donderdag 7 juli 2016 =
19:21<br><b>Aan:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>'FOT =
List'<br><b>Onderwerp:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>[Fot] TR8 Water =
temperature</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi guys,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>My TR8 is running way too hot about 212F at full speed and at idle =
the temps are getting that high also. I have no idea to get them =
down.<br>Radiator core is 68x48cm x 5 cm. I suppose that should be =
enough. I've experiment with different restrictor plates with no change. =
Changing pump speed didn't help either. The difference between radiator =
in and outlet is 10=C2=B0C (50F). Not enough I would say. Maybe making =
the pump more slower? It was running on a ratio of 0.8 slower than =
crank, currently 1:1 speed.<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Any ideas? 10 Liters are =
circulating.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Chris</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>_____________=
__________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate:<span =
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gte.net</a><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
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style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_________=
______________________________________<br></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>fot@autox=
.team.net</span></a><span =
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</p></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>
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