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All of this is inevitable, and not a bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just =
continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions =
that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their =
youth.=20
Dave
> On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys =
<healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and =
comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like =
the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic =
and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic =
density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A =
100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still =
knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly anyone has =
met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either. =
I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having =
met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone here knows the =
difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. All of these are =
then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M is actually =
offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not =
by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is also non who =
would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are =
slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers =
just enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s =
or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from =
their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are =
too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are =
definitely the better cars compared.
> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
> =20
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
> Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100
> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
> An: "Michael Oritt" <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention =
that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>=20
> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually =
by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay =
me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a =
run-down of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the =
same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' =
cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a =
50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the =
interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty =
savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect =
carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry =
thing).=20
>=20
> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>=20
> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf =
<https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf>
>=20
>=20
> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car =
(the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what =
might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
> =20
> Best--Michael Oritt
>=20
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>=20
> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>=20
> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>=20
> bs
>=20
>=20
> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't =
that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
> If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications, =
say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I =
would consider them be very special.
> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
> Just my opinion.=20
> =20
> M
>=20
> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In my =
opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is =
significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification =
reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a =
modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new =
chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a conversion =
to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, =
etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather =
buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to =
admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what =
the car is. It's a special model with a little more horsepower, but not =
anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. =
Josef Eckert Germany=20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may =
be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' =
with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>=20
> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd =
be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body =
and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an earnest =
owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, =
but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>=20
>=20
> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that =
caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
> =20
> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has its =
original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M. =
Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a =
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
> =20
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>=20
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>=20
> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, =
since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could =
only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely =
original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One =
thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified =
this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, =
looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).=20
>=20
> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, =
it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value should =
be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did =
the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you =
present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the =
proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
> If you were following it recently, you might find my observations =
interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
> =20
> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 =
front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, =
as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have =
no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox =
mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to =
accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
> =20
> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays =
mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions =
to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the =
two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that =
area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used =
to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with that, where a =
BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine =
screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see =
plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position.=20
> =20
> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. =
Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end =
result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared =
identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear =
original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M =
engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
> =20
> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off =
another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows =
some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make =
out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, =
but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously =
clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that =
would be for someone else to decide.=20
> =20
> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply =
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks =
old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?
> =20
> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to =
try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. =
Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes =
where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the =
person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and =
thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
> =20
> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car =
correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=
> =20
> The Millers
> =20
> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a =
test drive."
> _______________________________________________
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">All =
of this is inevitable, and not a bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just =
continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions =
that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their =
youth. <div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dave<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys =
<<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8" =
class=3D""><title class=3D""></title><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:=
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"HwtZe" lang=3D"en"><span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for =
Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed =
extremely.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span> <span =
class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">They can no longer keep up =
with today's traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to =
the high traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve =
to overtake.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in =
demand.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her =
past is almost extinct.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span> =
<span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">I'm 66 years old now =
and didn't know him either.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz =
ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">I saw Geoff once before he died, but we =
knew Margot quite well, having met through friends.</span></span> <span =
class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">But back to the =
100M.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 =
with a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz =
ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">All of these are then usually offered as =
100 Le Mans.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is =
slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. =
Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span> There is also non who =
would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the =
3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough =
comfort.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span =
class=3D"ryNqvb">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else =
from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that =
they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are =
also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 =
which are definitely the better cars compared.<br =
class=3D""></span></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span class=3D"HwtZe" =
lang=3D"en"><span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">Btw.: =
The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful =
events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago =
are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are =
hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those =
who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not =
really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are =
expensive, but not inviting.</span></span></span></span></div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""> </span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Josef Eckert</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">Germany</span></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">An: "Michael Oritt" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; =
class=3D"">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>></div><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p>
<div style=3D"position: relative; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to =
mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a =
case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing =
people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">How many =
times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a =
'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for =
it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a =
run-down of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the =
same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' =
cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a =
50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the =
interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty =
savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect =
carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry =
thing). <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=46rom the late, great Gary =
Anderson:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf">https://austinhealeyconcoursre=
gistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson=
.pdf</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt =
wrote:</div>
<blockquote =
cite=3D"mid:CAPTa0B5FFKbZyBNszuXUsAf6UwK-xJBtOSn7bHCFyiHt66DTNg@mail.gmail=
.com" class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Some feel that =
since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he =
figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what might =
otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;"> </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AF=
AM Bob Spidell <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"">The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional =
branch extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% =
increase in power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a =
camshaft and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull =
the engine, but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the =
mods in situ)?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I think at least part of the =
value of an M is that it made an appearance at the Healey factory, =
possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming =
off the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for the most =
part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and =
came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started asking for the =
same modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone =
remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain). <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">bs<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I'm not an "M" guy really because as =
someone mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " =
parts on any 100.
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">If the "M" designation involved significant =
performance modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could =
not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his =
"M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Just my opinion. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""> </div>
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">M</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. =
josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"">
<pre dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align: left;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. =
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any =
modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing =
special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal =
opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as =
would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a =
Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. =
I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same =
money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far =
exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more =
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px;" class=3D"">An: "HealeyRick" <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p>
<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: =
normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Note the =
Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what =
Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with =
aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.). <br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, =
but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an =
M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, <em class=3D"">maybe</em>). The main =
problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">This is all hypothesis based on speculation =
so take it with that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory =
100M that was so bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be =
to transfer the 100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with =
the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus =
mostly on the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a =
car. Even cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm =
pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT =
car still an M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed =
and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at =
auction.
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M =
no longer has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its =
character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's =
almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with =
an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, =
but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to =
be non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would =
remove those from an original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve =
cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we =
can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lump!</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div class=3D"">Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AF=
PM Bob Spidell <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"">Excellent report, thank you. <br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car). <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The other thing =
that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice =
car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value <em class=3D"">should</em>=
be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did =
the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you =
present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the =
proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=
<div class=3D"">On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; =
background-color: transparent;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">If you were following it recently, you might find =
my observations interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor =
cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is =
what I found.</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. =
It has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced =
welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The =
front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the =
factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if =
it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount. </div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has =
two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it =
different directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled =
holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the =
vent just below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding =
wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took =
great care to try and make those holes seem as they never existed. =
Along with that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to =
the firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the =
firewall, you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in =
what would be a BN2 relay position. </div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the =
lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped =
with a deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to =
compare, and they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath =
tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine =
isn't the correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the =
engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M =
can attest to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed =
has that M power. </div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being =
swapped off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the =
boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I =
could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in =
from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed =
suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the =
boot, but that would be for someone else to decide. </div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">Mike had asked me if the cold air box was =
original, and I simply don't have that experience to know. I have =
anyways heard if it looks old, it's original. It does indeed look =
to have some age, so?</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to =
some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on =
a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to =
fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. =
Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the =
BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 =
chassis? </div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent =
the car correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car =
is straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be =
a very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years =
of experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With =
the quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front =
frame to shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks =
good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would =
not be an issue. </div>
</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">The Millers<br class=3D""> <br class=3D"">"Always =
drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test =
drive."</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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