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As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and=20
comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like the=
=20
pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on=20
motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and=20
the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A 100M and also a=
=20
100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey=
=20
from her past is almost extinct. Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.=
=20
I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either. I saw Geoff once before he=
=20
died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through friends. But back=
=20
to the 100M. Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a=
=20
LeMans kit and a 100M. All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le=20
Mans. If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly higher=
=20
than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays=
=20
that here. There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as=
=20
I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in=20
demand because it offers just enough comfort. But younger people don't want=
=20
these old cars at all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something=20
else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that=
=20
they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also=
=20
out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which=
=20
are definitely the better cars compared.
Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful=
=20
events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago=20
are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are=20
hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those=20
who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really=
=20
inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are expensive,=
=20
but not inviting.
=20
Josef Eckert
Germany
=20
=20
=20
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100
Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
An: "Michael Oritt" <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
=20
=20
=20
I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that=20
aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling=
=20
the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure=20
out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate the=
=20
strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the=20
Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke=20
Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healeys'=
=20
rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and=20
salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we're=
=20
talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more=20
expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the=
=20
US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the=
=20
get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that=20
well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a=
=20
'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for=20
it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down=
=20
of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same with=
=20
other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going=20
across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over=
=20
comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did you=
=20
watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was=
=20
surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was=
=20
tired of doing the registry thing).
>From the late, great Gary Anderson:
<https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf>
On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car
(the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what
might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
=20
Best--Michael Oritt
On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.n=
et
The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft
and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the
engine, but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the
mods in situ)?
I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line.
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to
the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th)
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640
cars only 3,000 remain).
bs
On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there
isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=
=20
If the "M" designation involved significant performance
modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be
easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be
surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
Just my opinion.=20
=20
M
On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. I=
n my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is si=
gnificantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification redu=
ces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified =
100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis woul=
d be such a major modification for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes=
at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be s=
imply no longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-=
Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surroun=
ding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model =
with a little more horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its l=
ike an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net
An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com
=20
=20
=20
Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,'
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can
build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy
head, SBC, etc.).
I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis,
but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much
hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main
problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down
the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm
not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).
On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with
that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that
was so bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to
transfer the 100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis
along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts
and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty
certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the
BaT car still an M? Some pretty valuable race cars have
been crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring
big money at auction.=20
=20
To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no
longer has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has
lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a
louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its
motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's
got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not
much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to
be non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern.
Who would remove those from an original M motor? C'mon 100M
sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is
still a 100M cam in the lump!
=20
Happy Healeydays,
Rick Neville
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <
Excellent report, thank you.
I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar
with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious
differences with my car (which was completely original as
far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One
thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the
Registry certified this car, while noting some major
anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and
didn't have the hand scribing like my car).
The other thing that interested me is, how do you value
this car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good
driver but, IMO, its value should be less than a
comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did
the previous owner know, or should have known about this
car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M
bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside
the page title.
Bob
On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
If you were following it recently, you might find my
observations interesting. So I went down to
Michael's motor cars to help him determine if the
100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
=20
It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled
pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame
mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as
the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front
shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and
show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to
accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
=20
What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has
two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took shining
a light it different directions to just make out the
slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the
two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent
just below that area with my fingers and feel the
welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4
holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try
and make those holes seem as they never existed.=20
Along with that, where a BN2 would have the single OD
relay attached to the firewall with machine screws
screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall,=20
you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it
in what would be a BN2 relay position.=20
=20
I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the
lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/
letters stamped with a deeper end result. I took my
repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared
identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and
VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that
the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there
could be many reasons why the engine tag was
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a
100M can attest to the difference in power, and Mike
stated that it indeed has that M power.=20
=20
The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket
being swapped off another lid, and if you look
closely you can see that the boot shows some previous
age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not
make out any evidence of the bonnet number being
sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the
underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot,
but that would be for someone else to decide.=20
=20
Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,=
=20
and I simply don't have that experience to know. I
have anyways heard if it looks old, it's original.=20
It does indeed look to have some age, so?
=20
I feel at some point in this car's life someone went
to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M
parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another
interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill
the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the
frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that
the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought
they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
=20
With all that said, Mike is simply trying to
represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice
car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps
look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but
Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd
trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
restoration, it is surprising that the front frame
to shroud brackets were not welded to the frame.
Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some
trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
=20
=20
The Millers
=20
"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an
antique car is a test drive."
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m>
=EF=BB=BF
------=_Part_1429980_970563996.1702750500072
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3DUTF-8"/><title></title></head><body><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;te=
xt-decoration:none"><span class=3D"HwtZe" lang=3D"en"><span class=3D"jCAhz =
ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">As far as I can see here in Europe, the mark=
et for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed =
extremely.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb=
">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b=
"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">They can no longer keep up with today's traffic an=
d on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density a=
nd the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span> <=
span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">A 100M and also a 100 ar=
e no longer in demand.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span cla=
ss=3D"ryNqvb">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is=
almost extinct.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"=
ryNqvb">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span> <span class=
=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">I'm 66 years old now and didn't kn=
ow him either.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ry=
Nqvb">I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, havin=
g met through friends.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span cla=
ss=3D"ryNqvb">But back to the 100M.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk=
0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between =
a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk=
0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le =
Mans.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">If =
a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a=
comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here.<=
/span></span> There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. <spa=
n class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">But as I said, Austin-Heale=
ys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offer=
s just enough comfort.</span></span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span cla=
ss=3D"ryNqvb">But younger people don't want these old cars at all.</span></=
span> <span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">They are looking =
for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that also offers m=
ore safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower priced br=
itish cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Ma=
zda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.<br /=
></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none"><span class=3D"HwtZ=
e" lang=3D"en"><span class=3D"jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class=3D"ryNqvb">Btw.: Th=
e Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful events l=
ike International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago are no lon=
ger offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are hardly any act=
ive people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are al=
so a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really inviting. Many p=
eople now stay away from these events which are expensive, but not inviting=
.</span></span></span></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none"> </span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Josef Eckert</span>=
</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">Germany</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">An: "Michael Oritt" <michael.oritt@gmail.com&g=
t;</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style=3D"position: relative; color: #000000; font: 12px Arial,Helvetic=
a,sans-serif;">I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to =
mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case =
for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't n=
egate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that t=
he Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke =
Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healeys'=
rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesma=
n; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we're talkin=
g TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more expensiv=
e Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US to g=
auge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, =
for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was =
the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br /><br />How many times have you been =
asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you'v=
e replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; thes=
e days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number=
of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity =
of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty =
savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carb=
s and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry thing). <=
br /><br />From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br /><br /><a class=3D"moz-t=
xt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-conte=
nt/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf">https://austin=
healeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-1=
00M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br /><br /><br />
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<=
/div>
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:CAPTa0B5FFKbZyBNszuXUsAf6UwK-xJBtOSn7bHCFyiHt66DTNg=
@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Some feel that since=
DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured o=
ut a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have bec=
ome a less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by outfit=
ting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it was probabl=
y never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce what has iro=
nically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibi=
lity.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;"> </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Best--Michael Oritt<=
/div>
</div>
<br />
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AF=
AM Bob Spidell <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:bspide=
ll@comcast.net">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extracto=
r--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd ca=
ll that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an e=
ngine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff=
weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br /><br />I think a=
t least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance at the Heal=
ey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to jus=
t coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for th=
e most part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) =
and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started asking for the s=
ame modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remem=
ber 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br /><br />I'd say the market has s=
poken, since genuine M cars command a significant price premium (hence why =
of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain). <br /><br />bs<br =
/><br /><br />
<div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned th=
ere isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
<div dir=3D"auto">If the "M" designation involved significant performance m=
odifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily c=
opied, then I would consider them be very special.
<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would =
not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto"> </div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. jos=
ef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"ma=
ilto:healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<pre dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align: left;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"fon=
t-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">What makes a 100M? =
Very good question and not easy to answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey =
100M, especially as the price category is significantly higher than the nor=
mal 100, is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modifi=
ed 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an M. But thi=
s is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification =
for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion t=
o a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M.=
I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. =
But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerate=
d for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more horsepower, =
but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Merc=
edes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; text-decoration: none;"> </spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; text-decoration: none;"> </spa=
n></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-f=
reetext" href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@c=
omcast.net</a>></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;">An: "HealeyRick" <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-fre=
etext" href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer">healeyrik@gma=
il.com</a>></p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px;"> </p>
<div style=3D"color: #000000; font: 12px Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">Note =
the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what Ken=
t's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with aftermark=
et parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.). <br /><br />I don't think eithe=
r Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathe=
tic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, <=
em>maybe</em>). The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conve=
rsion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down th=
e road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on=
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br /><br /><br />
<div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it wit=
h that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad=
it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M bod=
y parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis p=
late? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts an=
d cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines h=
ave been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the regi=
stry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some pretty valuable race cars ha=
ve been crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money =
at auction.
<div> </div>
<div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam=
Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's =
got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger an=
ymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distribut=
or caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? C'mo=
n 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indi=
cator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lum=
p!</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AF=
PM Bob Spidell <<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:bspide=
ll@comcast.net" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div=
>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Excellent report, thank you. <br /><br />I was one of the commenters o=
n BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not famili=
ar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with m=
y car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for exten=
sive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the R=
egistry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, f=
or instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car=
). <br /><br />The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this=
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value=
<em>should</em> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. A=
nd, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? =
How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the p=
roverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br /><br />Bob<br /><br /><br =
/><br />
<div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; bac=
kground-color: transparent;">
<div>If you were following it recently, you might find my observation=
s interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him det=
ermine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1=
front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as=
the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no ev=
idence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount show=
s non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mo=
unted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to ju=
st make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two rela=
ys). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with my f=
ingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 ho=
les. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes see=
m as they never existed. Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into w=
elded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see plain sheet screws we=
re used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. =
Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end resul=
t. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared iden=
tical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. N=
ow that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because th=
ere could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove=
a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, and =
Mike stated that it indeed has that M power. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off a=
nother lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some pr=
evious age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any ev=
idence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say=
that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I=
couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone else =
to decide. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply=
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, =
it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to=
try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. A=
nother interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes wher=
e a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn'=
t realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were=
erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correct=
ly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and ga=
ps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all ar=
ound. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his be=
lt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration,=
it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not we=
lded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies a=
t a popular vote car would not be an issue. </div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The Millers<br /> <br />"Always drive them, but remember each dri=
ve in an antique car is a test drive."</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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