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Rick,
Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another listing
for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having
a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no
issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely)
reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he
knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.
Bob
On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Â Â Â As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the
> /Healey Marque /this 100M discussion has been really helpful and
> interesting. I think your comment " I was surprised Bill let the
> incorrect carbs and distributor slide "Â raises a great question of
> what exactly is the 100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has
> written an article on what needs to be presented to be certified.
> https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf
> <https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf> Â But
> it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the
> factory with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures
> of the engine number. And even if all the body parts, carbs, and
> distributor aren't there, Bill says in the article "If some of these
> items are missing, let the Registry know. It normally does not prevent
> registration provided enough ID points are present."Â So my
> impression, which I'll try to verify with Bill, is the certification
> is focused on the question whether this is the car that left the
> factory that matches the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered
> hood and not so much on whether it still has all the original parts an
> M would have come with.
> Â Â Â I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers (and
> probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major deficiencies
> with an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this car than it
> would be worth if not for the "savage" comments.
>
> Happy Healeydays
> Rick Neville
>
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46â?¯AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to
> mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling
> made a case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army
> of marketing people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course,
> and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking,
> IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the Bonneville
> cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke
> Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the
> Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant
> marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between
> lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and
> Cs--and higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and
> plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge
> the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the
> get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph
> history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>
> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is
> worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied
> 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems
> genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary
> market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other
> marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going
> across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100%
> premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest
> and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage
> and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect
> carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the
> registry thing).
>
> From the late, great Gary Anderson:
>
>
> https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a
>> new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get
>> rid of what might otherwise have become a
>> less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by
>> outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it
>> was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to
>> produce what has ironically become a very special Healey second
>> only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>
>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31â?¯AM Bob Spidell
>> <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch
>> extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22%
>> increase in power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do
>> you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine (the mechanics
>> were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff
>> weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?
>>
>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an
>> appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or
>> Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin
>> assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for the most
>> part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52
>> ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers
>> started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a
>> kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday,
>> sell on Monday?').
>>
>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a
>> significant price premium (hence why of the original,
>> documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).
>>
>> bs
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there
>>> isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any
>>> 100.
>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance
>>> modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not
>>> be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not
>>> be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
>>> Just my opinion.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via
>>> Healeys, <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to
>>> answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially
>>> as the price category is significantly higher than the
>>> normal 100, is a car that any modification reduces its
>>> value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's
>>> a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my
>>> personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major
>>> modification for me, as would a conversion to disc
>>> brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber
>>> carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original
>>> Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to
>>> admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far
>>> exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model
>>> with a little more horsepower, but not anything
>>> particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG
>>> Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>
>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>
>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>>
>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans
>>> Conversions,' which may be what Kent's nasty is/was.
>>> Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with
>>> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>>>
>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100
>>> chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that,
>>> but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a
>>> BN2, /maybe/). The main problem I see is an earnest
>>> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with
>>> full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the
>>> 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not
>>> all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>
>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take
>>> it with that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty
>>> factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new frame.Â
>>> How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts
>>> over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the
>>> oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry
>>> seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and
>>> cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with
>>> non-original engines have been registered. I'm
>>> pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the
>>> registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some pretty
>>> valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted
>>> with new chassis and still bring big money at auction.
>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M
>>> no longer has its original motor, or equal
>>> replacement, it has lost its character as an M.
>>> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's
>>> almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it
>>> was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got
>>> the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not
>>> much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what
>>> appears to be non-original carbs and distributor
>>> caused me concern. Who would remove those from an
>>> original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve
>>> cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indicator
>>> on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a
>>> 100M cam in the lump!
>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>> Rick Neville
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05â?¯PM Bob Spidell
>>> <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Excellent report, thank you.
>>>
>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT
>>> to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not
>>> familiar with BN1 differences and could only
>>> point out obvious differences with my car (which
>>> was completely original as far as I can tell,
>>> except for extensive body work). One thing that
>>> was somewhat disturbing to me is that the
>>> Registry certified this car, while noting some
>>> major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked
>>> to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like
>>> my car).
>>>
>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do
>>> you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice car,
>>> probably a good driver but, IMO, its value
>>> /should/ be less than a comparably restored,
>>> original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous
>>> owner know, or should have known about this car?
>>> How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M
>>> bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk
>>> alongside the page title.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>
>>> If you were following it recently, you
>>> might find my observations interesting. So I
>>> went down to Michael's motor cars to help
>>> him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1
>>> chassis. Here is what I found.
>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled
>>> pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose
>>> frame mount the is less pronounced welded
>>> BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted
>>> on bracket. The front shock towers have no
>>> evidence of being replaced and show the
>>> factory welds. The gearbox mount shows
>>> non-original/factory welds as if it were
>>> replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.
>>> What I found most interesting is that where
>>> a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the
>>> dash, it took shining a light it different
>>> directions to just make out the slight
>>> evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the
>>> two relays). And I was able to reach inside
>>> the vent just below that area with my
>>> fingers and feel the welds and welding wire
>>> that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can
>>> tell you someone took great care to try and
>>> make those holes seem as they never existed.
>>> Along with that, where a BN2 would have the
>>> single OD relay attached to the firewall
>>> with machine screws screwed into welded
>>> captive nuts on the firewall, you can see
>>> plain sheet screws were used to mount it in
>>> what would be a BN2 relay position.
>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because
>>> of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to
>>> have the numbers/ letters stamped with a
>>> deeper end result. I took my repo engine
>>> tag along to compare, and they appeared
>>> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath
>>> tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that
>>> doesn't mean that the engine isn't the
>>> correct M engine, because there could be
>>> many reasons why the engine tag was
>>> replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100
>>> compared to a 100M can attest to the
>>> difference in power, and Mike stated that it
>>> indeed has that M power.
>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay
>>> bracket being swapped off another lid, and
>>> if you look closely you can see that the
>>> boot shows some previous age/life. I'd
>>> believe it to be original. I could not make
>>> out any evidence of the bonnet number being
>>> sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say
>>> that the underside of the bonnet seemed
>>> suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't
>>> detect any age like the boot, but that would
>>> be for someone else to decide.
>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was
>>> original, and I simply don't have that
>>> experience to know. I have anyways heard if
>>> it looks old, it's original. It does indeed
>>> look to have some age, so?
>>> I feel at some point in this car's life
>>> someone went to some effort to try and
>>> conceal that these 100M parts were
>>> reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another
>>> interesting note is that there was an
>>> attempt to fill the holes where a BN1
>>> chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail.
>>> Perhaps the person didn't realize that the
>>> holes continued over to the BN2's, and
>>> thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1
>>> chassis?
>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to
>>> represent the car correctly. The car is a
>>> very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is
>>> straight, and gaps look good. Interior is
>>> very nice, and looks to be a very good car
>>> all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike
>>> has years of experience under his belt, so
>>> I'd trust his opinions on that. With the
>>> quality of the restoration, it is surprising
>>> that the front frame to shroud brackets were
>>> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good,
>>> and I'd think winning some trophies at a
>>> popular vote car would not be an issue.
>>> The Millers
>>>
>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive
>>> in an antique car is a test drive."
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> 
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>>
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Rick,<br>
<br>
Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another
listing for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented
truthfully, as having a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and
distributor I'd have no issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M
equivalent' with a (likely) reduced price. The commenters did a
potential buyer a favor; if s/he knows what s/he got, and is happy
with it, that's great.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGfzsZd1qWXCocMmwqwh9uBt=Vzb_UZVKyn4_zoY=g-OKWN4KA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Bob,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Â Â Â As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report"
for the <i>Healey Marque </i>this 100M discussion has been
really helpful and interesting. I think your comment " I was
surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide
"Â raises a great question of what exactly is the 100M
certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on
what needs to be presented to be certified.  <a
href="https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf";
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf ;</a>Â
 But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that
it left the factory with. I find it interesting there's no
necessity for pictures of the engine number. And even if all
the body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't there, Bill says
in the article "If some of these items are missing, let the
Registry
know. It normally does not prevent registration provided
enough ID points are present."Â So my impression, which I'll
try to verify with Bill, is the certification is focused on
the question whether this is the car that left the factory
that matches the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered
hood and not so much on whether it still has all the original
parts an M would have come with.</div>
<div>Â Â Â I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for
buyers (and probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out
major deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have
paid way more this car than it would be worth if not for the
"savage" comments.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy Healeydays</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at
11:46â?¯AM Bob Spidell <<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected
to mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were
selling made a case for selling the M (these days, that
would take an army of marketing people to figure out, with
lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate
the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or
was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on
it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses
etc. a run for their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity
likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman;
he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance
MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and
plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US to
gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option
from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know
Triumph history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the
100?<br>
<br>
How many times have you been asked what your Healey is
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied
'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person
seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the
contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the
same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS
'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence
the intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch
the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to
me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and
distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry
thing). <br>
<br>
From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">Some
feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over
to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever
marketing ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have
become a less-than-desirable inventory of late
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with
the snazzy M upgrade. If so it was probably never his
intention nor in his comprehension to produce what has
ironically become a very special Healey second only to
the 100-S in collectibility.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">Best--Michael
Oritt</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023
at 1:31â?¯AM Bob Spidell <<a
href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the
optional branch extractor--as opposed to a stock
BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call
that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft
and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were
supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff
weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in
situ)?<br>
<br>
I think at least part of the value of an M is that
it made an appearance at the Healey factory,
possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as
opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line.
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the
same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52
('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When
customers started asking for the same modifications
DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone
remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br>
<br>
I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars
command a significant price premium (hence why of
the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000
remain). <br>
<br>
bs<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because
as someone mentioned there isn't that much to
hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.Â
<div dir="auto">If the "M" designation involved
significant performance modifications, say
like an "M" series BMW, which could not be
easily copied, then I would consider them be
very special.
<div dir="auto">I understand that Mr Meade has
now sold his "M" so would not be surprised
to see the "Registry" fade away.</div>
<div dir="auto">Just my opinion. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">M</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec.
15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via
Healeys, <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<pre
id="m_1603492253125454553m_-4413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text"
dir="ltr" style="text-align:left"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" lang="en">What
makes a 100M?
Very good question and not easy to answer.
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is
significantly higher than the normal 100,
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is
nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a
major modification for me, as would a
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors,
etc. This would be simply no longer a
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the
same money. But I have to admit, for me
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a
special model with a little more
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a
AMG Mercedes.
Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre>
<p style="margin:0px"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Â </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">Â </span></p>
<p style="margin:0px">Â </p>
<p style="margin:0px">Â </p>
<p
style="margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys]
Recent 100M on BAT</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Datum:
2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</p>
<p style="margin:0px">Von: "Bob Spidell"
<<a href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></p>
<p style="margin:0px">An: "HealeyRick" <<a
href="mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com";
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></p>
<p style="margin:0px">Â </p>
<p style="margin:0px">Â </p>
<p style="margin:0px">Â </p>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font:12px Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Note the
Registry will also certify 'Le Mans
Conversions,' which may be what Kent's
nasty is/was. Some have noted you can
build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts
(Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.). <br>
<br>
I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules
makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat
more sympathetic to that, but not so much
hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a
BN2, <em>maybe</em>). The main problem I
see is an earnest owner may sell a
conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full
disclosure, but an owner or two down the
road the 'Tribute' tag has been
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
bands).<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick
wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">This is all hypothesis
based on speculation so take it with
that caveat. Let's say one had a
rusty factory 100M that was so bad it
needed a new frame. How hard would it
be to transfer the 100M body parts
over to a solid BN1 chassis along with
the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The
100M Registry seems to focus mostly on
the original body parts and cockpit
surrounds to certify a car. Even cars
with non-original engines have been
registered. I'm pretty certain Kent
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So
is the BaT car still an M? Some
pretty valuable race cars have been
crashed and fitted with new chassis
and still bring big money at auction.Â
<div>Â </div>
<div>To me, what makes an M an M is
the motor. If an M no longer has
its original motor, or equal
replacement, it has lost its
character as an M. Otherwise, it's a
BN2 with a louvered hood. It's
almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew
its motor and it was replaced with
an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the
right serial number on the unibody,
but it's not much of a Tiger
anymore. The BaT car with what
appears to be non-original carbs and
distributor caused me concern. Who
would remove those from an original
M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the
valve cover, remove the rockers and
put a dial indicator on the pushrods
so we can see if there is still a
100M cam in the lump!</div>
<div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On
Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05â?¯PM Bob
Spidell <<a
href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Excellent report, thank you. <br>
<br>
I was one of the commenters on
BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but,
since I have a BN2/100M I'm not
familiar with BN1 differences and
could only point out obvious
differences with my car (which was
completely original as far as I
can tell, except for extensive
body work). One thing that was
somewhat disturbing to me is that
the Registry certified this car,
while noting some major anomalies
(the carbs, for instance, looked
to be new and didn't have the hand
scribing like my car). <br>
<br>
The other thing that interested me
is, how do you value this car?
Yes, it's a very nice car,
probably a good driver but, IMO,
its value <em>should</em> be less
than a comparably restored,
original BN1 or BN2. And, what did
the previous owner know, or should
have known about this car? How do
you present it for sale; as a BN1
with 'M bits?' It would need the
proverbial asterisk alongside the
page title.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and
T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
<div>If you were following it
recently, you might find my
observations interesting.Â
So I went down to Michael's
motor cars to help him
determine if the 100m indeed
has a BN1 chassis. Here is
what I found.</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>It has the BN1 inner
fenders with the rolled
pressings. It has the BN1
front brake hose frame mount
the is less pronounced
welded BN1 bracket, as the
later cars have a bolted on
bracket. The front shock
towers have no evidence of
being replaced and show the
factory welds. The gearbox
mount shows
non-original/factory welds
as if it were replaced to
accommodate the BN2 mount. </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>What I found most
interesting is that where a
BN1 has two OD relays
mounted under the dash, it
took shining a light it
different directions to just
make out the slight evidence
of filled holes (4 of then
for the two relays). And I
was able to reach inside the
vent just below that area
with my fingers and feel the
welds and welding wire that
was used to fill those 4
holes. I can tell you
someone took great care to
try and make those holes
seem as they never existed.Â
Along with that, where a BN2
would have the single OD
relay attached to the
firewall with machine screws
screwed into welded captive
nuts on the firewall, you
can see plain sheet screws
were used to mount it in
what would be a BN2 relay
position. </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>I also feel the engine
tag is a repo because of the
lighter stamping. Originals
tend to have the numbers/
letters stamped with a
deeper end result. I took
my repo engine tag along to
compare, and they appeared
identical in the stampings.
The body/ bath tag and VIN
plate appear original. Now
that doesn't mean that the
engine isn't the correct M
engine, because there could
be many reasons why the
engine tag was replaced.
Anyone who drove a stock 100
compared to a 100M can
attest to the difference in
power, and Mike stated that
it indeed has that M power. </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>The boot lid shows no
evidence of the stay bracket
being swapped off another
lid, and if you look closely
you can see that the boot
shows some previous
age/life. I'd believe it to
be original. I could not
make out any evidence of the
bonnet number being sliced
in from a M bonnet, but I
will say that the underside
of the bonnet seemed
suspiciously clean and
prestine. I couldn't detect
any age like the boot, but
that would be for someone
else to decide. </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>Mike had asked me if the
cold air box was original,Â
and I simply don't have that
experience to know. I have
anyways heard if it looks
old, it's original. It does
indeed look to have some
age, so?</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>I feel at some point in
this car's life someone went
to some effort to try and
conceal that these 100M
parts were reinstalled on a
BN1 chassis. Another
interesting note is that
there was an attempt to fill
the holes where a BN1
chassis plate is fitted on
the frame rail. Perhaps the
person didn't realize that
the holes continued over to
the BN2's, and thought they
were erasing evidence of a
BN1 chassis? </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>With all that said, Mike
is simply trying to
represent the car correctly.
The car is a very nice car!
Paint is very nice, car is
straight, and gaps look
good. Interior is very nice,
and looks to be a very good
car all around. I didn't
drive the car, but Mike has
years of experience under
his belt, so I'd trust his
opinions on that. With the
quality of the restoration,Â
it is surprising that the
front frame to shroud
brackets were not welded to
the frame. Chrome looks
good, and I'd think winning
some trophies at a popular
vote car would not be an
issue. </div>
</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>The Millers<br>
 <br>
"Always drive them, but
remember each drive in an
antique car is a test drive."</div>
</blockquote>
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