Thanks Tim. I also have a Laycock pressure plate that I believe is in
good shape. Do you know if any of the disks available today are
compatible with this pressure plate? Does anyone have any experience
with LUK clutch setups?
Thanks,
Jay
On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Timothy Holbrook
<tjh173@yahoo.com> writes:
> I have the magic clutch in my car, and pedal pressure is extremely
> high. I didn't notice this so much when I first put it in, because
> I
> have always used Borg and Beck pressure plates in the car, and it's
> what I was used to. However, I bought a 2000 Honda Civic Si (please
> keep the boo-ing to a dull roar, it really is a fun car!!) at the
> end
> of December to use as reliable daily transport now that I have
> graduated college and entered the working world. When I got back in
> my
> TR6 on Memorial Day weekend (car had been in storage since late
> August
> 2000), I couldn't believe the amount of force required to disengage
> the
> clutch. I also became more aware of the fact that the clutch in my
> TR
> is either on or off, it bights right off the floor and there it is
> very
> tough to smoothly engage. Luckily these cars have bags of torque,
> my
> Honda would stall immediately if it had the same clutch setup.
>
> Late last year I read a great article in a VTR magazine (or
> something
> like that) where someone had done research into the clutch problems
> that we TR250/6 owners are facing. It seems that the Laycock OE
> clutch
> was of a much better design and had lower pressure, but is
> unfortunately no longer available. He also theorized that the high
> pressure of the Borg and Beck clutches may be responsible for the
> short
> life spans of the t/o bearings. He also said that the high pressure
> may be causing problems with master and slave cylinders, increasing
> wear in the bores. This, he claims, is why we often see our clean
> fresh hydraulic fluid turn black (mine is always black, even after
> replacing the cylinders/hard pipe/flexible pipe with brand new units
> and bleeding the system). The aluminum master/slave cylinders wear
> and
> aluminum is ground away and deposited in the hydraulic fluid, where
> it
> subsequently oxidizes and turns the fluid black.
>
> Obviously, we don't need such high pressures on our pressure plates.
> I
> have driven high performance Mustangs and such which have softer
> clutches than the magic clutch on my '6. Unfortunately, we don't
> have
> many choices available to us. Therefore, we have to use heavy duty
> t/o bearings from the Toyota. It is very unlikely that a clutch
> manufacturer will build a proper pressure plate just for our
> relatively
> small market. Maybe one day someone will find another pressure
> plate
> (that currently fits a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, or whatever) which is
> better suited to our cars.
>
> Tim Holbrook
> 1971 TR6
>
>
> --- jay_welch@juno.com wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > First and foremost, thank you all for the wealth of information
> > shared
> > through this list,
> >
> > Secondly, just my 2 cents regarding the clutch problems with the
> TR6
> > models. After reading many articles, talking to a number of
> people
> > and
> > my own experiences with this car it appears that the spring
> pressure
> > of
> > the after market pressure plates are to blame for many of the
> > inherent
> > problems associated with the TR6.
> >
> > I have compared the pressure required to actuate my clutch with a
> car
> > recently purchased by a friend. His 72 appears to be very
> unmolested
> > and
> > don't have any idea what clutch recipe is used in his car. His
> > clutch is
> > very smooth and easy to depress and doesn't affect how positive
> the
> > clutch operates. My car has a Borg and Beck disk and pressure
> plate
> > that
> > I reused when I swapped engines but I did install the Toyota Land
> > Cruiser
> > T/O bearing because of the bad press surrounding the after market
> T/O
> > bearings from the big 3. The clutch appears to work fine except
> that
> > it
> > doesn't feel like it has completely released the disk from the
> > flywheel
> > thus sometimes grinding of gears. I still need to check the red
> > plastic
> > hose to see if it swells when the pedal is depressed. I am
> probably
> > also
> > losing a little bit of leverage as the Toyota T/O has a larger
> > diameter
> > at the pressure plate contact point than the T/O that was removed.
>
> >
> > I have compared my clutch to other's cars and their's is also
> quite
> > stiff
> > as compared to my friend's.
> >
> > My feelings are that the added pressure of the Borg and Beck type
> > product
> > could be blamed for early crank shaft thrust washer failure,
> > expansion of
> > the red clutch slave pipe, enlargement of the clutch rod pivot
> holes
> > on
> > the clutch and overdevelopment of my left calf muscle.
> >
> > Could someone describe the force required on their "Magic Clutch"
> or
> > Sachs setup when compared to other's cars.
> > > --------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Timothy Holbrook <tjh173@yahoo.com>
> > > To: 6pack@autox.team.net
> > > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Subject: Re: smooth ride, clutch stuff
> > > Message-ID: <20010726190042.23586.qmail@web4602.mail.yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > The stock-grade throwout bearings have been complete junk for
> the
> > > past
> > > few years. No matter how you press them onto the sleeves, they
> > fall
> > > apart in just a few thousand miles, if that. I went through 4
> t/o
> > > bearings in a few months during 1997, and finally put in one of
> the
> > > heavy-duty bearings made for Toyota Land Cruiser. Haven't had a
> > > problem since. TRF sells this bearing as part of their "magic
> > > clutch"
> > > kit with Sachs components (probably the same part that your
> > mechanic
> > > is
> > > using). Several TR parts suppliers are selling this kit. I
> would
> > > caution anyone who needs to replace a t/o bearing, don't use the
> > > standard grade bearings. I have heard nothing but complaints,
> and
> > > had
> > > several problems myself.
> > >
> > > Tim Holbrook
> > > 1971 TR6
> > >
> > > --- RPVanLuchene@lbl.gov wrote:
> > > > Well I got my car back the other day and the car drives
> > > > beautifully. Immediately noticed it as I drove away from the
> shop
> >
> > > and
> > > > onto the Bay Bridge. It is amazing how tight it feels. THe
> tube
> > > > conversion kit was the one-piece bracket type with KYB gas
> > shocks.
> > > I
> > > > also had new inner U joints put in and new diff mounts
> installed.
> >
> > > Up
> > > > front I got new shocks and new upper ball joints. Along with
> my
> > > > recently
> > > > restored wheels with new Coker redlines, the car is one smooth
>
> > > ride,
> > > > with perfect stiffness. I don't know how I have gone this long
>
> > > with
> > > > my
> > > > old worn-out setup - I guess I diddnt know what a "right" car
> was
> > > > supposed to feel like -
> > > >
> > > > I'm also still having clutch disengagement problems and talked
> > > > to the mechanic about it. He's been working on TR's for 30
> years
> > > and
> > > > never had a problem with TR clutches until recently, about the
>
> > > last
> > > > 2-3
> > > > years. The throw out bearings have been bad - he said he
> talked
> > to
> > > > someone at TRF about it and they told him he was intalling the
> TO
> > > > bearing into the sleeve incorrectly (he uses wood to do this I
>
> > > think)
> > > > he said well OK you guys put the bearing in the sleeve your
> way
> > > > and send it to me and he'll install it in a car. Well the
> bearing
> > > > ended
> > > > up failing and they wouldnt take it back! I told him someone
> > needs
> > > to
> > > > talk to the manufacturer about this, b/c I know of a lotta
> others
> >
> > > who
> > > > are having the same problems. More recently he has been using
> > > > a Japanese TO bearing made by a company called AP with a Sachs
> > > > pressure
> > > > plate and standard or Sachs clutch plate. It seems to have
> been
> > > > working
> > > > well for his other customers.
> > > > I'm going to try it out in a few weeks - hopefully this will
> be a
> > > > solid
> > > > fix. Will update the list more on this as it progresses.
> > > > I hope to have it finished before the Monterey weekend. I plan
> on
> > > > going
> > > > to the Concorso Italiano and maybe some of the races.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Ryan
> > > > 6/71 Sapphire
> > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo!
> > > Messenger
> > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
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