I have the magic clutch in my car, and pedal pressure is extremely
high. I didn't notice this so much when I first put it in, because I
have always used Borg and Beck pressure plates in the car, and it's
what I was used to. However, I bought a 2000 Honda Civic Si (please
keep the boo-ing to a dull roar, it really is a fun car!!) at the end
of December to use as reliable daily transport now that I have
graduated college and entered the working world. When I got back in my
TR6 on Memorial Day weekend (car had been in storage since late August
2000), I couldn't believe the amount of force required to disengage the
clutch. I also became more aware of the fact that the clutch in my TR
is either on or off, it bights right off the floor and there it is very
tough to smoothly engage. Luckily these cars have bags of torque, my
Honda would stall immediately if it had the same clutch setup.
Late last year I read a great article in a VTR magazine (or something
like that) where someone had done research into the clutch problems
that we TR250/6 owners are facing. It seems that the Laycock OE clutch
was of a much better design and had lower pressure, but is
unfortunately no longer available. He also theorized that the high
pressure of the Borg and Beck clutches may be responsible for the short
life spans of the t/o bearings. He also said that the high pressure
may be causing problems with master and slave cylinders, increasing
wear in the bores. This, he claims, is why we often see our clean
fresh hydraulic fluid turn black (mine is always black, even after
replacing the cylinders/hard pipe/flexible pipe with brand new units
and bleeding the system). The aluminum master/slave cylinders wear and
aluminum is ground away and deposited in the hydraulic fluid, where it
subsequently oxidizes and turns the fluid black.
Obviously, we don't need such high pressures on our pressure plates. I
have driven high performance Mustangs and such which have softer
clutches than the magic clutch on my '6. Unfortunately, we don't have
many choices available to us. Therefore, we have to use heavy duty
t/o bearings from the Toyota. It is very unlikely that a clutch
manufacturer will build a proper pressure plate just for our relatively
small market. Maybe one day someone will find another pressure plate
(that currently fits a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, or whatever) which is
better suited to our cars.
Tim Holbrook
1971 TR6
--- jay_welch@juno.com wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> First and foremost, thank you all for the wealth of information
> shared
> through this list,
>
> Secondly, just my 2 cents regarding the clutch problems with the TR6
> models. After reading many articles, talking to a number of people
> and
> my own experiences with this car it appears that the spring pressure
> of
> the after market pressure plates are to blame for many of the
> inherent
> problems associated with the TR6.
>
> I have compared the pressure required to actuate my clutch with a car
> recently purchased by a friend. His 72 appears to be very unmolested
> and
> don't have any idea what clutch recipe is used in his car. His
> clutch is
> very smooth and easy to depress and doesn't affect how positive the
> clutch operates. My car has a Borg and Beck disk and pressure plate
> that
> I reused when I swapped engines but I did install the Toyota Land
> Cruiser
> T/O bearing because of the bad press surrounding the after market T/O
> bearings from the big 3. The clutch appears to work fine except that
> it
> doesn't feel like it has completely released the disk from the
> flywheel
> thus sometimes grinding of gears. I still need to check the red
> plastic
> hose to see if it swells when the pedal is depressed. I am probably
> also
> losing a little bit of leverage as the Toyota T/O has a larger
> diameter
> at the pressure plate contact point than the T/O that was removed.
>
> I have compared my clutch to other's cars and their's is also quite
> stiff
> as compared to my friend's.
>
> My feelings are that the added pressure of the Borg and Beck type
> product
> could be blamed for early crank shaft thrust washer failure,
> expansion of
> the red clutch slave pipe, enlargement of the clutch rod pivot holes
> on
> the clutch and overdevelopment of my left calf muscle.
>
> Could someone describe the force required on their "Magic Clutch" or
> Sachs setup when compared to other's cars.
>
> Thanks and enjoy the season,
> Jay Welch, Abington MA
> 1971 TR6 project, 1973 TR6 driver
> Member "Cape Cod British Car Club" @
> http://clubs.hemmings.com/capecodbritish/
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 05:49:44 -0400 jay_welch@juno.com writes:
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay Welch - Abington, MA
> > Member "Cape Cod British Car Club"
> > http://clubs.hemmings.com/capecodbritish/
> > 1971 TR6 project and 1973 TR6 driver getting closer to the street
> >
> > --------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: jay_welch@juno.com
> > To: jay_welch@juno.com
> > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 05:46:06 -0400
> > Subject: Fw: Re: smooth ride, clutch stuff
> > Message-ID: <20010727.054608.-276053.0.jay_welch@juno.com>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay Welch - Abington, MA
> > Member "Cape Cod British Car Club"
> > http://clubs.hemmings.com/capecodbritish/
> > 1971 TR6 project and 1973 TR6 driver getting closer to the street
> >
> > --------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Timothy Holbrook <tjh173@yahoo.com>
> > To: 6pack@autox.team.net
> > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: Re: smooth ride, clutch stuff
> > Message-ID: <20010726190042.23586.qmail@web4602.mail.yahoo.com>
> >
> > The stock-grade throwout bearings have been complete junk for the
> > past
> > few years. No matter how you press them onto the sleeves, they
> fall
> > apart in just a few thousand miles, if that. I went through 4 t/o
> > bearings in a few months during 1997, and finally put in one of the
> > heavy-duty bearings made for Toyota Land Cruiser. Haven't had a
> > problem since. TRF sells this bearing as part of their "magic
> > clutch"
> > kit with Sachs components (probably the same part that your
> mechanic
> > is
> > using). Several TR parts suppliers are selling this kit. I would
> > caution anyone who needs to replace a t/o bearing, don't use the
> > standard grade bearings. I have heard nothing but complaints, and
> > had
> > several problems myself.
> >
> > Tim Holbrook
> > 1971 TR6
> >
> > --- RPVanLuchene@lbl.gov wrote:
> > > Well I got my car back the other day and the car drives
> > > beautifully. Immediately noticed it as I drove away from the shop
>
> > and
> > > onto the Bay Bridge. It is amazing how tight it feels. THe tube
> > > conversion kit was the one-piece bracket type with KYB gas
> shocks.
> > I
> > > also had new inner U joints put in and new diff mounts installed.
>
> > Up
> > > front I got new shocks and new upper ball joints. Along with my
> > > recently
> > > restored wheels with new Coker redlines, the car is one smooth
> > ride,
> > > with perfect stiffness. I don't know how I have gone this long
> > with
> > > my
> > > old worn-out setup - I guess I diddnt know what a "right" car was
> > > supposed to feel like -
> > >
> > > I'm also still having clutch disengagement problems and talked
> > > to the mechanic about it. He's been working on TR's for 30 years
> > and
> > > never had a problem with TR clutches until recently, about the
> > last
> > > 2-3
> > > years. The throw out bearings have been bad - he said he talked
> to
> > > someone at TRF about it and they told him he was intalling the TO
> > > bearing into the sleeve incorrectly (he uses wood to do this I
> > think)
> > > he said well OK you guys put the bearing in the sleeve your way
> > > and send it to me and he'll install it in a car. Well the bearing
> > > ended
> > > up failing and they wouldnt take it back! I told him someone
> needs
> > to
> > > talk to the manufacturer about this, b/c I know of a lotta others
>
> > who
> > > are having the same problems. More recently he has been using
> > > a Japanese TO bearing made by a company called AP with a Sachs
> > > pressure
> > > plate and standard or Sachs clutch plate. It seems to have been
> > > working
> > > well for his other customers.
> > > I'm going to try it out in a few weeks - hopefully this will be a
> > > solid
> > > fix. Will update the list more on this as it progresses.
> > > I hope to have it finished before the Monterey weekend. I plan on
> > > going
> > > to the Concorso Italiano and maybe some of the races.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > > 6/71 Sapphire
> > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo!
> > Messenger
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
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