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My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay i=
dea sounds good.
Thanks for the help.
Bob
> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <tsmit@shaw.ca> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Bob,
>=20
> The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/M=
KIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts,=
and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. T=
here is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has t=
hat then it was added by a previous owner.
> <Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png>
>=20
> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot sid=
e, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it=
's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resist=
ances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from e=
ach terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isol=
ate where the wiring problem is.
> <Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png>
> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast in=
to the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points=
) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. T=
he way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the t=
erminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connect=
ed (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).=20
>=20
> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is con=
nected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect t=
he purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to=
the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an intern=
al short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out w=
here the short is.
>=20
> Theo
>=20
> From: "Bob Wanty" <bobwanty@gmail.com>
> To: "Theo Smit" <tsmit@shaw.ca>
> Cc: "Tom Witt" <atwittsend@verizon.net>, "tigers" <tigers@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
>=20
> Thanks for the responses.
> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple w=
ires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to groun=
d when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it wo=
rks fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are groun=
ded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections f=
or two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.
> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, u=
se the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to t=
he other horn?
>=20
>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <tsmit@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>=20
>> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they c=
ould instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.=20
>>=20
>> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It wo=
uld be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact doe=
s not have to pass that much current.=20
>> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.=20
>>=20
>> Theo
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>=
wrote:
>>=20
>> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. W=
hen the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit=
) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the h=
orns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. S=
orry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars f=
unction that way.
>>=20
>> Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone p=
resses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act lik=
e the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to th=
e light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn t=
he switch off. Hope that helps.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
>> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year rest=
ore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at th=
e horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns,=
there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot=
and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I instal=
led a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn r=
ing and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think t=
he wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a con=
nector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the h=
orn ring.
>> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact the=
n a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness d=
oes not seem to follow that way of thinking.
>> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this=
will probably start a fire.
>> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so h=
opefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Bob=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@veri=
zon.net
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty@gmail.=
com
>>=20
>>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My h=
orns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea=
sounds good.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the help.</div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 24, 2023, a=
t 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <tsmit@shaw.ca> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div style=3D"font-famil=
y: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Hi Bo=
b,</div><div><br></div><div>The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tiger=
sunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" data-mce-href=3D"http=
://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg">http://tigers=
united.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid pur=
ple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wi=
res that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire fro=
m one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previou=
s owner.</div><div><div><Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png></div=
></div><div><br></div><div>But, if the horns already start to sound when you=
connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one h=
orn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can=
measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two h=
orn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). T=
hat would help you isolate where the wiring problem is.</div><div><div><S=
creenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png></div></div><div>This is a sketch o=
f the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two=
terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but=
there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're descr=
ibing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot ca=
uses the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pu=
shing the horn ring on the steering wheel). </div><div><br data-mce-bog=
us=3D"1"></div><div>Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when o=
nly the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works p=
roperly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-bl=
ack-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one t=
hat has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up a=
nd figuring out where the short is.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div=
><div>Theo</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__">=
<div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Bob Wanty" <bobwanty@gmail=
.com><br><b>To: </b>"Theo Smit" <tsmit@shaw.ca><br><b>Cc: </b>"Tom W=
itt" <atwittsend@verizon.net>, "tigers" <tigers@autox.team.net><=
br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re:=
[Tigers] Horn Wiring</div><div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT_=
_"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the responses.<div><div>Everything is wired t=
o the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one i=
s hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is p=
ressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks=
. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame.&nb=
sp; I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the=
wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.</div></div><div>So s=
hould I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use th=
e existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the ot=
her horn?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <<a href=3D=
"mailto:tsmit@shaw.ca"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer=
" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:tsmit@shaw.ca";>tsmit@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-=
left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D=
"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Correct except that Roote=
s (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the c=
urrent through a finicky sliding contact. </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about thre=
e amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that th=
e ring contact does not have to pass that much current. </div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. </div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Theo<br><blockquote>On Sep 23, 2023, a=
t 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-mce-href=3D"mai=
lto:tigers@autox.team.net">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></blo=
ckquote></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><p>I believe most horns have a re=
lay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact i=
t GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points co=
nnect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn rin=
g simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check th=
e manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way.</p><p> Th=
ink of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presse=
s you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the=
relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the lig=
ht (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the s=
witch off. Hope that helps.</p><div><br></div><div>On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Rob=
ert Wanty wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr">I am working on wiring th=
e horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the o=
riginal wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on =
; each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wir=
es leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the=
fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn rin=
g from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second w=
ire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the c=
ircle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for i=
t in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.<d=
iv>It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact the=
n a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness d=
oes not seem to follow that way of thinking.<br><div>The wiring diagram=
is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a=
fire.</div><div>Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewi=
re the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://syste=
m.to" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-mce-href=3D=
"http://system.to";>system.to</a> its original splendor.</div><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>Bob </div><div> </div><div><br><div> &nbs=
p;</div></div></div></div><br><fieldset></fieldset><pre>____________________=
___________________________
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