--===============2290998892511247836==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Based on the review info on Summit, the Hella horns have the same wiring as the
OEM Clear Hooters so you should be good to go. Another source I found indicated
the power consumption is 72W so that should be 6A at 12V, the same as OEM also.
You would still be best off with running these through a relay.
[ https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html |
https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html ]
On Hella's site you can hear what they sound like.
Cheers,
Theo
From: "Bob Wanty" <bobwanty@gmail.com>
To: "Joe Brown" <jbbrown1980@gmail.com>
Cc: "Gary" <garywinblad@comcast.net>, "Theo Smit" <tsmit@shaw.ca>, "tigers"
<tigers@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 3:33:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the
Hellas a try
On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown <jbbrown1980@gmail.com> wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I
saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella
dual trumpet horns. You can see them at [
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801 |
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801 ] . They come with a relay and
they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use
the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them
and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed
them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more
current to them and have a louder sound.
Have Fun,
Joe Brown
On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21 PM GARY WINBLAD < [ mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net
| garywinblad@comcast.net ] > wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are
both 12V.
There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could
remember.
I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo,
I couldn't
see any way to fix that one.
Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work)
or add a relay for the
fans you already have.
Gary W.
BQ_BEGIN
On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty < [ mailto:bobwanty@gmail.com |
bobwanty@gmail.com ] > wrote:
My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay
idea sounds good.
Thanks for the help.
Bob
BQ_BEGIN
On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit < [ mailto:tsmit@shaw.ca | tsmit@shaw.ca
] > wrote:
BQ_END
BQ_BEGIN
Hi Bob,
The wiring diagram here: [
http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg |
http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg ] shows two
solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black
stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper
wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a
previous owner.
<Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png>
But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side,
then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's
intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances
then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each
terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate
where the wiring problem is.
<Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png>
This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into
the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to
each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way
you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals
to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or,
without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).
Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is
connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect
the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to
the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal
short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where
the short is.
Theo
From: "Bob Wanty" < [ mailto:bobwanty@gmail.com | bobwanty@gmail.com ] >
To: "Theo Smit" < [ mailto:tsmit@shaw.ca | tsmit@shaw.ca ] >
Cc: "Tom Witt" < [ mailto:atwittsend@verizon.net | atwittsend@verizon.net ] >,
"tigers" < [ mailto:tigers@autox.team.net | tigers@autox.team.net ] >
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
Thanks for the responses.
Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires
to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when
the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine,
even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the
frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the
wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.
So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use
the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the
other horn?
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM Theo Smit < [ mailto:tsmit@shaw.ca |
tsmit@shaw.ca ] > wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could
instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.
Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be
a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have
to pass that much current.
If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.
Theo
BQ_BEGIN
On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers < [
mailto:tigers@autox.team.net | tigers@autox.team.net ] > wrote:
BQ_END
BQ_BEGIN
I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When
the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and
the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns.
So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too
late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that
way.
Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses
you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the
relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light
(horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch
off. Hope that helps.
On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I
am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns
there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2
purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to
the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn
ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second
wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the
circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the
harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.
It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a
hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not
seem to follow that way of thinking.
The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will
probably start a fire.
Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so
hopefully I can restore the Lucas [ http://system.to/ | system.to ] its
original splendor.
Bob
_______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers@autox.team.net
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BQ_END
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_______________________________________________
[ mailto:tigers@autox.team.net | tigers@autox.team.net ]
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--=_8c82cd5d-5279-4eeb-a993-ae4d22ff78f7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Based on the review info on Summit, the Hel=
la horns have the same wiring as the OEM Clear Hooters so you should be goo=
d to go. Another source I found indicated the power consumption is 72W so t=
hat should be 6A at 12V, the same as OEM also. You would still be best off =
with running these through a relay.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></di=
v><div><a href=3D"https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html";>http=
s://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html</a><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"=
></div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>On Hella's site you can hea=
r what they sound like.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Cheer=
s,</div><div>Theo</div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div da=
ta-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Bob Wanty" <bobwanty@gmail.com&g=
t;<br><b>To: </b>"Joe Brown" <jbbrown1980@gmail.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"G=
ary" <garywinblad@comcast.net>, "Theo Smit" <tsmit@shaw.ca>, "t=
igers" <tigers@autox.team.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, September 25, =
2023 3:33:19 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring<br></div><div><=
br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I mig=
ht give the Hellas a try</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote>On Sep 25, 2=
023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown <jbbrown1980@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></bl=
ockquote></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">I attempted to=
repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I save=
d them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of=
Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at <a href=3D"https:=
//www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow noopener noreferrer">https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801</a=
>. They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations=
with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back=
and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were real=
ly loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So=
I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more curren=
t to them and have a louder sound.<br><div>Have Fun,</div><div>Joe Brown</d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD <<a href=3D"mail=
to:garywinblad@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener nore=
ferrer">garywinblad@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
=20
=20
=20
<div>
<div>
Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals th=
at are both 12V.
</div>=20
<div>
There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I coul=
d remember.
</div>=20
<div>
I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. =
Unlike Theo, I couldn't
</div>=20
<div>
see any way to fix that one.
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still =
work) or add a relay for the
</div>=20
<div>
fans you already have.
</div>=20
<div>
Gary W.
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<blockquote>=20
<div>
On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty <<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">bobwanty@gmai=
l.com</a>> wrote:
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The r=
elay idea sounds good.
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Thanks for the help.
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Bob
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<br>=20
<blockquote>
On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@sha=
w.ca" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">tsmit@shaw.ca<=
/a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>=20
</div>=20
<blockquote>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">=20
<div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size=
:10pt;color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 )">=20
<div>
Hi Bob,
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resource=
s/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopen=
er noreferrer">http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwirin=
g.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and t=
wo purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There=
is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has tha=
t then it was added by a previous owner.
</div>=20
<div>=20
<div>
<Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png>
</div>=20
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the h=
ot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not=
how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very lo=
w resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals =
and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would he=
lp you isolate where the wiring problem is.
</div>=20
<div>=20
<div>
<Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png>
</div>=20
</div>=20
<div>
This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L c=
ast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the=
points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body =
itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting o=
ne of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is=
not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&n=
bsp;
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot =
is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (co=
nnect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe=
wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has =
an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figu=
ring out where the short is.
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
Theo
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<hr id=3D"m_-7690374029801399408zwchr">=20
<div>
<strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" <<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">bobwanty@gm=
ail.com</a>>
<br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" <<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@sha=
w.ca" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">tsmit@shaw.ca<=
/a>>
<br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" <<a href=3D"mailto:atwittsend=
@verizon.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">atwitt=
send@verizon.net</a>>, "tigers" <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.=
net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">tigers@autox.te=
am.net</a>>
<br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
<br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Thanks for the responses.=20
<div>=20
<div>
Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2=
purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goe=
s to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&=
nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original sin=
ce they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I=
only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires,=
one to each horn.
</div>=20
</div>=20
<div>
So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to th=
e horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring=
wire to the other horn?
</div>=20
</div>=20
<br>=20
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:tsmit@shaw.ca" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">tsmit@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:
</div>=20
<blockquote>=20
<div dir=3D"auto">=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay wh=
ere they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding conta=
ct.
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps ea=
ch. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring c=
ontact does not have to pass that much current.
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
</div>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Theo
<br>=20
<blockquote>
On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <<a href=
=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>=20
</div>=20
<blockquote>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">=20
<p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at=
said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (complet=
ing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through =
the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay=
to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specif=
ics but MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
<p> Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the ho=
use. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you an=
d the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This =
then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoul=
der releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
</div>=20
<blockquote>=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">
I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my =
15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. S=
tarting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire bet=
ween the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire=
on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not=
hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire fro=
m the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off=
the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot&n=
bsp; but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the d=
ash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
<div>
It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the rin=
g contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wi=
ring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking.
<br>=20
<div>
The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited kno=
wledge on this will probably start a fire.
</div>=20
<div>
Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewi=
re the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://syst=
em.to" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">syst=
em.to</a> its original splendor.
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
Bob
</div>=20
<div>
</div>=20
<div>
<br>=20
<div>
</div>=20
</div>=20
</div>=20
</div>=20
<br>=20
<pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>=20
</blockquote>=20
</div>=20
</blockquote>=20
</div> _______________________________________________
<br>
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