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Re: [Tigers] The answer to a question that no one asked...

To: michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] The answer to a question that no one asked...
From: Theo Smit <tsmit@shaw.ca>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 09:06:17 -0600 (MDT)
Cc: David Sosna <sosnaenergyconsulting@gmail.com>, David Sosna via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: tigers@autox.team.net
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Thread-topic: The answer to a question that no one asked...
--===============8253092178551267175==
        boundary="=_78404558-a8f9-439c-b5a9-9c6eebf4bd98"

--=_78404558-a8f9-439c-b5a9-9c6eebf4bd98
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

(for non-EV-interested people, feel free to ignore)=20

I've had a Polestar 2 as my daily driver since April. Polestar is a joint v=
enture between Volvo and Geely (the chinese car maker that is behind a bunc=
h of upcoming EV technology).=20
The spec range for it is 250 miles (400 km) from a 78 kWh battery. 400 hp a=
nd all wheel drive make it a pretty quick ride but it's heavier than a Tesl=
a model 3. The Polestar uses a standard SAE J1772 charge plug and it's actu=
ally delivered with an charge cord that has both a 14-50P (250V, 50A) plug =
and a 110V 16A plug adapter. In a pinch, you can plug it in at any place th=
at could also accommodate an RV.=20

A couple of weeks ago we drove it to Edmonton. 200 miles at 75 mph used up =
about 70 percent of the battery, and we did that in one shot. As it happene=
d, the car dealer across from our hotel had a public 24 kW DC charger. That=
's in the 'fast' category but not nearly as fast as most other public charg=
ers, which range from 50 to 350 kW. So we charged it for about an hour that=
 afternoon while we were getting set up at the hotel, and again for about a=
n hour the next morning while we were having breakfast. That put us back at=
 about 75% battery.=20

When we started driving back to Calgary, the nav system predicted we'd be f=
our percent short and suggested we put in a charging stop. We set off witho=
ut doing that, but (unlike the previous day) our range prediction got more =
gloomy over the first half hour or so, so we decided to hit a 50 kW charger=
 in Red Deer. A 35 minute stop there (with a coffee break) got us 30% more =
charge and we actually finished the trip with about 35% left in the battery=
. Our net 'extra time' over what we would otherwise do was maybe ten minute=
s max, since we normally already do make a stop halfway back for a coffee o=
r whatever.=20

I think in general, EV technology is at a bit of an inflection point right =
now. There are a bunch of new cars coming to market, some from well establi=
shed makers and some from people you've never heard of. For all of us that =
can accommodate a level 2 charger in the garage or carport, the cost of ele=
ctricity makes the operating cost a no brainer. Depending on your transport=
ation needs, you might never need a public charger for regular commuting.=
=20
There are at least half a dozen charger infrastructure tracking apps that w=
ill tell you where the public chargers are and whether they are currently i=
n use. It's maybe not as slick as the Tesla network but it is coming along =
pretty quickly. Probably the biggest issue is that sometimes chargers show =
up on a map but they are not functional - the crowdsourced reviews can help=
 you there. Secondary issue is that a charger might be occupied when you ge=
t there. Probably not a huge deal if it's another EV (although that might d=
elay your trip by half an hour) but it sucks when it's someone that's parke=
d their car there just to block the charger from being used.=20

Since this is kind of off-topic for the Tiger mailing list, feel free to re=
ply direct and not through the list if you think that's more appropriate.=
=20

Cheers,=20
Theo=20


From: "michael king via Tigers" <tigers@autox.team.net>=20
To: "Gary" <garywinblad@comcast.net>=20
Cc: "David Sosna" <sosnaenergyconsulting@gmail.com>, "David Sosna via Tiger=
s" <tigers@autox.team.net>=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 6:45:29 AM=20
Subject: Re: [Tigers] The answer to a question that no one asked...=20

Tesla have the jump on everyone with infrastructure...which makes owning th=
eir products easier...=20
As for the cars.. The Koreans with the EV range from Hyundai and KIA seem t=
o have made big ground on Telsa and if the charging infrastructure becomes =
more generic other brands will come along.=20

The Chinese cars have a huge diversity of products... Good and bad... How m=
any make it beyond their borders guven global tensions will be interesting.=
=20



On Tuesday, 4 October 2022, GARY WINBLAD < [ mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net=
 | garywinblad@comcast.net ] > wrote:=20



David,=20
The Tesla supercharger network is pretty much what you want. Not every pole=
 but...=20
They are all over at least out in CA. It can add 200 miles in only 20 minut=
es and they put them=20
right by restaurants, shopping malls, coffee shops, hotels, etc. The big di=
splay on the dash tells you=20
when you need a charge and directs you in. It gives options and it knows if=
 there will be any=20
wait or anything. Pretty impressive. The future is here.=20
Unfortunately, that's why the only EV I would consider right now is a Tesla=
...=20
Gary=20


BQ_BEGIN

On 10/03/2022 1:11 PM David Sosna via Tigers < [ mailto:tigers@autox.team.n=
et | tigers@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20




Hey, Ron:=20

I'll qualify my response by noting that I don't have an EV, so this is larg=
ely theoretical for me.=20

I like the idea of a charger on each phone pole. Seriously. Travelling betw=
een cities it seems like I could stop at a handy phone pole, whip out my cr=
edit card, get information on what that particular electricity provider is =
selling a KWH for, go ahead with my transaction and get a receipt. Okay, SO=
MEbody has to make sure that the roll of receipt paper on each phone-pole c=
harger is kept full. =F0=9F=98=89=20

Given that my city is gradually undergrounding telephone and electric utili=
ties, a lack of phone poles in a city doesn't seem like a big deal; convent=
ional charging stations would be--in the same future of phone-pole chargers=
--as readily available there as gas stations are now.=20


There's probably a lot of reasons why it wouldn't work and I'm guessing you=
r suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, but I still like it--it's elegant. =F0=9F=
=98=81=20

Best Regards=20

David Sosna=20


On 10/3/22 07:21, Ron Fraser wrote:=20

BQ_BEGIN



I saw the All Girls Garage show and it seems to me the Borla rep stated tha=
t there were several different engine sounds in the controller including Fe=
rrari and more were being developed. Alright, a Prius with Ferrari engine s=
ound.=20




I think Borla found a niche for those who just can=E2=80=99t be without the=
 latest electronic gismo. Borla will make a profit until the craze evaporat=
es or a government body says NO more please.=20




Seems to me California and New York have already banned the sale of petrol =
engine by 2035. My 1 st question would be how many of those politicians own=
 an EV now? My guess, few.=20




IMO the politicians have jumped to step 20 without considering the conseque=
nces. The power grid is not ready, the charging stations are not ready, bat=
tery technology is better but not totally ready for prime time and more imp=
ortant; until the EV range is specified for 20 degrees F, I=E2=80=99m not i=
nterested. Regional Transit here has some EV buses and if it get too cold t=
hey can=E2=80=99t use them, the range drops too far.=20




I would only consider a Hybrid vehicle in snow country.=20




EV vehicles are needed for major cities to clear the air but country folks =
drive longer distances for everything including work. Some of those EV=E2=
=80=99s are going to leave people stranded in the winter unless they put a =
charging station on every telephone pole.=20




Ron Fraser=20







From: Tigers [ mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net | <tigers-bounces@autox=
.team.net> ] On Behalf Of GARY WINBLAD=20
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2022 8:18 AM=20
To: Jim B [ mailto:jbsyv@yahoo.com | <jbsyv@yahoo.com> ] ; Jim B via Tigers=
 [ mailto:tigers@autox.team.net | <tigers@autox.team.net> ]=20
Subject: Re: [Tigers] The answer to a question that no one asked...=20





This same thing happened when horses became obsolete, some people just don'=
t adapt=20


to modern technology.=20


Nothing wrong with electric cars except the price and fear that the power g=
rid won't support=20


all of them.=20


Most of us Tiger guys won't live long enough (unfortunately) to worry about=
 this one.=20


Most of my miles now is our Prius Prime running on solar panel charged elec=
tricity. All=20


our local trips can be done with the 30 mile ranged but it gets 70MPG on tr=
ips, great=20


transportation device!=20


73,=20


Gary=20


Oh, I like that sound device, I have been thinking of how I could build one=
 myself. The=20


Prius has the worst worn out brake pad sound of scraping, screeching sounde=
r to warm blind=20


pedestrians.. where the heck did they come up with that, a V8 burble would =
be so much=20


better.=20

BQ_BEGIN



On 10/03/2022 1:00 AM Jim B via Tigers < [ mailto:tigers@autox.team.net | t=
igers@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20








Okay, here is my take. My first impression is this is as stupid as stupid g=
ets. I did hear somewhere that =E2=80=9Csome=E2=80=9D people are worried ab=
out deaf and/or blind folks not being able to hear an approaching EV. From =
experience, I can tell you that NO ONE even hears my F150. Many people step=
 into traffic around here without even looking. We will probably replace my=
 wife=E2=80=99s compact SUV with an EV in the near future. We already have =
a solar array designed to make up for the juice required and I plan to inst=
all a level 2 charger in the garage. We almost never travel far enough in t=
hat car to have to look for a charging station. As for us California guys, =
speaking for myself, I think I=E2=80=99ll be long gone before there is abso=
lutely no petrol to be had. Somewhere down the line, it will probably get v=
ery expensive to buy (as if it is not bad already) but, I have to actually =
make a point of driving the Tiger and my big block Ford just to keep em run=
ning right. Car shows and Sunday drives are the norm.=20


With all that said; I kinda like the George Jetson sound idea! I can see EV=
 drivers gettin creative with sound effects. That could be a hoot. AND, I h=
ave to admit that I clothes pinned playing cards into the spokes of my bicy=
cle as a kid!=20


JMHO=20


Cheers=20


Jim B=20





BQ_BEGIN



On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:14 PM, Jim Sencindiver < [ mailto:jd.sencindiver@gmail=
.com | jd.sencindiver@gmail.com ] > wrote:=20





Just saw (this weekend) the Borla system get installed on a Mustang MachE o=
n an episode of All Girls Garage (Motor Trend TV).=20





On Sun, Oct 2, 2022, 9:39 PM Stu < [ mailto:sabre2tgr@gmail.com | sabre2tgr=
@gmail.com ] > wrote:=20

BQ_BEGIN



Just what every EV owner needs...=20





[ https://www.borla.com/products/active-performance-sound-for-electric-vehi=
cles/ | Borla Active Performance Sound for Electric Vehicles ]=20


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BQ_END


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BQ_END


BQ_END



--=20
Regards=20

Michael King=20

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--=_78404558-a8f9-439c-b5a9-9c6eebf4bd98
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>(for non-EV-interested people, feel free to=
 ignore)</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>I've had a Polestar =
2 as my daily driver since April. Polestar is a joint venture between Volvo=
 and Geely (the chinese car maker that is behind a bunch of upcoming EV tec=
hnology).</div><div>The spec range for it is 250 miles (400 km) from a 78 k=
Wh battery. 400 hp and all wheel drive make it a pretty quick ride but it's=
 heavier than a Tesla model 3. The Polestar uses a standard SAE J1772 charg=
e plug and it's actually delivered with an charge cord that has both a 14-5=
0P (250V, 50A) plug and a 110V 16A plug adapter. In a pinch, you can plug i=
t in at any place that could also accommodate an RV.</div><div><br data-mce=
-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>A couple of weeks ago we drove it to &nbsp;Edmonton=
. 200 miles at 75 mph used up about 70 percent of the battery, and we did t=
hat in one shot. As it happened, the car dealer across from our hotel had a=
 public 24 kW DC charger. That's in the 'fast' category but not nearly as f=
ast as most other public chargers, which range from 50 to 350 kW. So we cha=
rged it for about an hour that afternoon while we were getting set up at th=
e hotel, and again for about an hour the next morning while we were having =
breakfast. That put us back at about 75% battery.</div><div><br data-mce-bo=
gus=3D"1"></div><div>When we started driving back to Calgary, the nav syste=
m predicted we'd be four percent short and suggested we put in a charging s=
top. We set off without doing that, but (unlike the previous day) our range=
 prediction got more gloomy over the first half hour or so, so we decided t=
o hit a 50 kW charger in Red Deer. A 35 minute stop there (with a coffee br=
eak) got us 30% more charge and we actually finished the trip with about 35=
% left in the battery. Our net 'extra time' over what we would otherwise do=
 was maybe ten minutes max, since we normally already do make a stop halfwa=
y back for a coffee or whatever.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><=
div>I think in general, EV technology is at a bit of an inflection point ri=
ght now. There are a bunch of new cars coming to market, some from well est=
ablished makers and some from people you've never heard of. For all of us t=
hat can accommodate a level 2 charger in the garage or carport, the cost of=
 electricity makes the operating cost a no brainer. Depending on your trans=
portation needs, you might never need a public charger for regular commutin=
g.</div><div> There are at least half a dozen charger infrastructure tracki=
ng apps that will tell you where the public chargers are and whether they a=
re currently in use. It's maybe not as slick as the Tesla network but it is=
 coming along pretty quickly. Probably the biggest issue is that sometimes =
chargers show up on a map but they are not functional - the crowdsourced re=
views can help you there. Secondary issue is that a charger might be occupi=
ed when you get there. Probably not a huge deal if it's another EV (althoug=
h that might delay your trip by half an hour) but it sucks when it's someon=
e that's parked their car there just to block the charger from being used.<=
/div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Since this is kind of off-top=
ic for the Tiger mailing list, feel free to reply direct and not through th=
e list if you think that's more appropriate.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=
=3D"1"></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Theo</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwch=
r" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </=
b>"michael king via Tigers" &lt;tigers@autox.team.net&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Ga=
ry" &lt;garywinblad@comcast.net&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"David Sosna" &lt;sosnaen=
ergyconsulting@gmail.com&gt;, "David Sosna via Tigers" &lt;tigers@autox.tea=
m.net&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 4, 2022 6:45:29 AM<br><b>Subject=
: </b>Re: [Tigers] The answer to a question that no one asked...<br></div><=
div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">Tesla have the jump on e=
veryone with infrastructure...which makes owning their products easier...<b=
r><div>As for the cars.. The Koreans with the EV range from Hyundai and KIA=
 seem to have made big ground on Telsa and if the charging infrastructure b=
ecomes more generic other brands will come along.</div><br><div>The Chinese=
 cars have a huge diversity of products... Good and bad... How many make it=
 beyond their borders guven global tensions will be interesting.</div><br><=
div><br><div><br>On Tuesday, 4 October 2022, GARY WINBLAD &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:garywinblad@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener no=
referrer">garywinblad@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
  =20
=20
 <div>
  <div>
   David,
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   &nbsp;The Tesla supercharger network is pretty much what you want.&nbsp;=
 Not every pole but...
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   They are all over at least out in CA.&nbsp; It can add 200 miles in only=
 20 minutes and they put them
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   right by restaurants, shopping malls, coffee shops, hotels, etc.&nbsp; T=
he big display on the dash tells you
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   when you need a charge and directs you in.&nbsp; It gives options and it=
 knows if there will be any
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   wait or anything.&nbsp; Pretty impressive.&nbsp; The future is here.
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   Unfortunately, that's why the only EV I would consider right now is a Te=
sla...
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   Gary
   <br>
  </div>
  <div>
   <br>
  </div>
  <blockquote>
   <div>
    On 10/03/2022 1:11 PM David Sosna via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tige=
rs@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">t=
igers@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <p>Hey, Ron:</p>
   <p>I'll qualify my response by noting that I don't have an EV, so this i=
s largely theoretical for me.</p>
   <p>I like the idea of a charger on each phone pole.&nbsp; Seriously.&nbs=
p; Travelling between cities it seems like I could stop at a handy phone po=
le, whip out my credit card, get information on what that particular electr=
icity provider is selling a KWH for, go ahead with my transaction and get a=
 receipt.&nbsp; Okay, SOMEbody has to make sure that the roll of receipt pa=
per on each phone-pole charger is kept full. =F0=9F=98=89</p>
   <p>Given that my city is gradually undergrounding telephone and electric=
 utilities, a lack of phone poles in a city doesn't seem like a big deal; c=
onventional charging stations would be--in the same future of phone-pole ch=
argers--as readily available there as gas stations are now.<br></p>
   <p>There's probably a lot of reasons why it wouldn't work and I'm guessi=
ng your suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, but I still like it--it's elegant. =
=F0=9F=98=81</p>
   <p>Best Regards</p>
   <p>David Sosna</p>
   <p><br></p>
   <div>
    On 10/3/22 07:21, Ron Fraser wrote:
    <br>
   </div>
   <blockquote>
    <div>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I saw the All Girls Garage show and it seems to=
 me the Borla rep stated that there were several different engine sounds in=
 the controller including Ferrari and more were being developed.&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Alright, a Prius with Ferrari engine sound.</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think Borla found a niche for those who just =
can=E2=80=99t be without the latest electronic gismo.&nbsp;&nbsp; Borla wil=
l make a profit until the craze evaporates or a government body says NO mor=
e please.</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Seems to me California and New York have alread=
y banned the sale of petrol engine by 2035.&nbsp;&nbsp; My 1<sup>st</sup> q=
uestion would be how many of those politicians own an EV now?&nbsp;&nbsp; M=
y guess, few.</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">IMO the politicians have jumped to step 20 with=
out considering the consequences.&nbsp;&nbsp; The power grid is not ready, =
the charging stations are not ready, battery technology is better but not t=
otally ready for prime time and more important; until the EV range is speci=
fied for 20 degrees F, I=E2=80=99m not interested.&nbsp;&nbsp; Regional Tra=
nsit here has some EV buses and if it get too cold they can=E2=80=99t use t=
hem, the range drops too far. &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would only consider a Hybrid vehicle in snow =
country.</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">EV vehicles are needed for major cities to clea=
r the air but country folks drive longer distances for everything including=
 work.&nbsp;&nbsp; Some of those EV=E2=80=99s are going to leave people str=
anded in the winter unless they put a charging station on every telephone p=
ole.</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron Fraser</p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <div>
      <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1pt;padding:3pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> Tigers <a href=3D"mail=
to:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopene=
r noreferrer">&lt;tigers-bounces@autox.team.net&gt;</a> <strong>On Behalf O=
f </strong>GARY WINBLAD<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, October 03, 2022 =
8:18 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Jim B <a href=3D"mailto:jbsyv@yahoo.com"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">&lt;jbsyv@yahoo.com&gt=
;</a>; Jim B via Tigers <a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">&lt;tigers@autox.team.net&gt;<=
/a><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Tigers] The answer to a question that=
 no one asked...</p>
      </div>
     </div>
     <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">This same thing happened when horses became ob=
solete, some people just don't adapt</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">to modern technology.</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nothing wrong with electric cars except the pr=
ice and fear that the power grid won't support</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">all of them.</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Most of us Tiger guys won't live long enough (=
unfortunately) to worry about this one.</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Most of my miles now is our Prius Prime runnin=
g on solar panel charged electricity.&nbsp; All</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">our local trips can be done with the 30 mile r=
anged but it gets 70MPG on trips, great</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">transportation device!</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">73,</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Gary</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Oh, I like that sound device, I have been thin=
king of how I could build one myself.&nbsp; The</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Prius has the worst worn out brake pad sound o=
f scraping, screeching sounder to warm blind</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">pedestrians.. where the heck did they come up =
with that, a V8 burble would be so much</p>
     </div>
     <div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal">better.</p>
     </div>
     <blockquote>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 10/03/2022 1:00 AM Jim B via Tigers &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow no=
opener noreferrer">tigers@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
      </div>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
      </div>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
      </div>
      <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Okay, here is=
 my take. My first impression is this is as stupid as stupid gets. I did&nb=
sp;hear&nbsp;somewhere that&nbsp;=E2=80=9Csome=E2=80=9D people are worried =
about deaf and/or blind folks not being able to hear an approaching EV. Fro=
m experience, I can tell you that NO ONE even hears my F150. Many people st=
ep into traffic around here without even looking. We will probably replace =
my wife=E2=80=99s compact SUV with an EV in the near future. We already hav=
e a solar array&nbsp;designed to make up for the juice required and I plan =
to install a level 2 charger in the garage. We almost never travel far enou=
gh in that car to have to look for a charging station. As for us California=
 guys, speaking for myself, I think I=E2=80=99ll be long gone&nbsp;before t=
here is absolutely no petrol to be had. Somewhere down the line, it will pr=
obably get very expensive to buy (as if it is not bad already) but, I have =
to actually make a point of driving the Tiger and my big block Ford just to=
 keep em running right. Car shows and Sunday drives are the norm.&nbsp;</sp=
an></p>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">With all tha=
t said; I&nbsp;kinda like the George Jetson sound idea! I can see EV driver=
s gettin creative with sound effects. That could be a hoot. AND, I have to =
admit that I&nbsp;clothes pinned&nbsp;playing cards into the spokes of my b=
icycle as a kid!&nbsp;</span></p>
      </div>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">JMHO</span><=
/p>
      </div>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Cheers</span=
></p>
      </div>
      <div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Jim B</span>=
</p>
       <div>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br></p>
        <blockquote>
         <div>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:14 PM, Jim Sencindive=
r &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jd.sencindiver@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
nofollow noopener noreferrer">jd.sencindiver@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
         </div>
         <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
         <div>
          <div>
           <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just saw (this weekend) the Borla system =
get installed on a Mustang MachE on an episode of All Girls Garage (Motor T=
rend TV).</p>
          </div>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
          <div>
           <div>
            <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 2, 2022, 9:39 PM Stu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sabre2tgr@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noope=
ner noreferrer">sabre2tgr@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
           </div>
           <blockquote>
            <div>
             <div>
              <div>
               <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">Just w=
hat every&nbsp;EV owner&nbsp;needs... </span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
               <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;=
</span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
               <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.borla.com/products/active-performance-sound-for-electric-v=
ehicles/" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">B=
orla Active Performance Sound for Electric Vehicles</a> </span></p>
              </div>
             </div>
            </div>
            <p style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">___________=
____________________________________ <br><br><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox=
.team.net" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
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           </blockquote>
          </div>
          <p style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">_____________=
__________________________________ <br><br><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.t=
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r></p>
         </div>
        </blockquote>
       </div>
       <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
      </div>
      <p style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">_________________=
______________________________ <br><br><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.=
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     </blockquote>
    </div>
    <br>
    <pre>_______________________________________________

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</pre>
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   <br>
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   <br>
  </blockquote>
 </div>
</blockquote></div></div><br><br>-- <br>Regards<br><br>Michael King<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>tigers@autox.tea=
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