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Relative motion between two metallic surfaces in contact under high load =
can result in fretting of the surfaces and possible stress corrosion =
cracking. Lubrication is necessary on the splines and conical surfaces =
of the wheel and hub to minimize fretting. I=E2=80=99ve used only =
grease to lubricate the wheel and hub surfaces for 36 years and I do not =
leave the wheels on for years without cleaning and re-lubrication. =
Never had a wheel seize on the hub, and the splines show no signs of =
wear on the wheels or hubs after 80,000 miles =E2=80=93 except that =
there is some slight evidence of fretting on the inboard conical =
surfaces.=20
=20
Steve Byers
HBJ8L/36666
BJ8 Registry
AHCA Delegate at Large
Havelock, NC USA
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mirek =
Sharp
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:36 PM
To: 'Perry'
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs
=20
Perhaps a little tangential to the main thread, and fully aware of the =
likelihood of me being accused of being pedantic (which never happens on =
this list J), but regarding what to use on splines to stop the wheel =
seizing on, I have never understood why the recommendation is always for =
grease. Grease is designed to lubricate parts, whereas the intent of =
applying it to the splines is to prevent them seizing on, not reduce =
friction (i.e., lubricate). For that reason I have always used an =
anti-seizing product, my favourite being Permatex Copper Anti-Seize =
Lubricant (they call it a lubricant, but woe betide anyone who actually =
uses it to lubricate). It should be used very sparingly, and I have =
never had an issue with a wheel sizing on the splines. A very fine =
smear of grease on the outside of the taper on the knock-off I agree is =
a good thing as the intent there IS to lubricate. Also, providing it is =
used sparingly, I have never had it seep out of the hub and onto the =
spokes, avoiding the (in my opinion) terrible practice of smearing =
sillycone (mis-spell intended) over the spoke heads inside the hub. Not =
to say grease does not work, it will, but why not use a product designed =
for the purpose, and achieve clean spokes at the same time?
=20
Cheers, Mirek
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of =
gradea1@charter.net
Sent: May-10-20 1:39 PM
To: 'Perry'
Cc: 'healeys@autox.team.net'
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs
=20
Replacement parts-not NOS-what if the knockoff bottoms out on the =
spline face before it tightens to the cone of the wire wheel? A =
combination of measured errors on replacement parts could create this =
condition-front to back. The knockoffs were made to tighten, but not be =
whaled upon. If properly applied each side they are self tightening and =
I normally spin them on hand tight, hit them with the rawhide snug while =
still up in the air, and then wack them one more time on the ground with =
the copper side of Thor.
=20
One time in the early '70s I witnessed a BMC "mechanic" whaling on a =
knockoff of the Healey, still hanging on the lube rack, with a ten pound =
long handle sledge hammer! Flat ears? you betcha.
=20
I would make sure that when mounted, the front edge of the wheel is just =
forward of the inner depth of the knockoff so that it actually contacts =
metal as it snugs it to the rear ring on the hub.=20
=20
Also-grease-not to much- but be sure splines, and ring of hub, and =
knockoff threads have a light smear. I use HD wheel bearing grease so =
it doesn't seep out the spoke nibs like moly or light grease would. Hank
-----------------------------------------
From: "Perry via Healeys"=20
To: "rrengineer.mike@att.net"
Cc: "healeys@autox.team.net"
Sent: Sunday May 10 2020 9:01:21AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] The Saturday Night Rant - Part III Knock offs
Michael et al,
Contemplate the mechanical connections between the hub extension, wire =
wheel hub and the knockoff.=20
The hub extension is bolted to the axle using tapered nuts that seat in =
the face of the extension. No rotational movement.
The wire wheel is connected to the hub extension via the splines. The =
tolerances in the splines may allow for some rotational movement but =
they have to be loose enough to get the wheel off the extension.=20
What else holds the wheel in place=E2=80=A6the knockoff. The cone in the =
knock off forces the wire wheel hub against the hub extension, The =
contact interface is the tapers on the hub extension and the wire wheel =
hub. You know the little area that we are frequently reminded to apply a =
smear of grease to stop the little squeaky noise at low speed. If the =
knock off is tight enough there is not movement here either.
So Mike, if you see movement between the knock off and the wire wheel, =
the knock off is not tight enough. =20
Suspect that the folks that developed knock offs understood the problem =
of owners/mechanics not getting them tight enough and used the handed =
(left and right) threads that self tighten.=20
Gentlemen, remember your Mother today!
Perry
=20
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986> for =
Windows 10
=20
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:57 AM
Subject: [Healeys] The Saturday Night Rant - Part III
=20
At my age (approaching this side of 70) I am on lock down at my house. =
I even have my groceries delivered. I will only go out to eat at a =
drive through with an N95 mask on. My Boston Terrier that goes with me =
does not wear one. He refuses, but he is only three years old. So, =
being sequestered to my domicile I have taken up the restoration of my =
BN2 with a vengeance. I did not know I knew so many off color phrases. =
Everything to be done on this car is difficult due to parts =
incompatibility, parts fit, parts unavailability or just my general =
ignorance and/or incompetence. This evening I finished mounting the =
right side front hub with all new parts. I thought I had done a nice =
job. No lateral play in the hub. Turns easily without binding. The =
correct amount of shims after much trial and error. Disc brake =
conversion was mounted and braided stainless steel flex brake lines =
hooked up at both ends. I have yet to run the brake lines. Maybe next. =
This rant is about the brand new Dayton wire wheels. I mounted the =
wire wheels which have temporary used tires on them so I can move the =
car when it is down off the dollies. After mounting the wheel I gave =
the two eared knockoff several pretty good whacks. Now the moment of =
truth. I grabbed the wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock position and pulled =
straight back and forth. Yay! No play, but when I rocked the wheel it =
moved slightly. I thought it was the hub, but looking closely you can =
see the wire wheel hub rocking back and forth in the knockoff! What!?! =
How hard are you supposed to hit those knockoffs?
Mike MacLean
=20
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Relative motion =
between two
metallic surfaces in contact under high load can result in fretting of =
the
surfaces and possible stress corrosion cracking.=C2=A0 Lubrication =
<b><i><u>is</u></i></b>
necessary on the splines and conical surfaces of the wheel and hub to =
minimize
fretting.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve used only grease to lubricate the wheel and =
hub surfaces for 36
years and I do not leave the wheels on for years without cleaning and
re-lubrication.=C2=A0 Never had a wheel seize on the hub, and the =
splines show no
signs of wear on the wheels or hubs after 80,000 miles =E2=80=93 except =
that there is
some slight evidence of fretting on the inboard conical surfaces. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Steve =
Byers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>HBJ8L/36666<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BJ8 =
Registry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>AHCA Delegate at =
Large<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Havelock, NC=C2=A0 =
USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Healeys
[mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mirek =
Sharp<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Perry'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> healeys@autox.team.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Perhaps a little tangential to =
the main
thread, and fully aware of the likelihood of me being accused of being =
pedantic
(which never happens on this list </span><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-family:
Wingdings'>J</span><span lang=3DEN-CA>), but regarding what to use on =
splines to
stop the wheel seizing on, I have never understood why the =
recommendation is
always for grease. Grease is designed to lubricate parts, =
whereas
the intent of applying it to the splines is to prevent them seizing on, =
not
reduce friction (i.e., lubricate). For that reason I have always =
used an
anti-seizing product, my favourite being Permatex Copper Anti-Seize =
Lubricant
(they call it a lubricant, but woe betide anyone who actually uses it to
lubricate). It should be used very sparingly, and I have never had an =
issue
with a wheel sizing on the splines. A very fine smear of grease on =
the
outside of the taper on the knock-off I agree is a good thing as the =
intent
there IS to lubricate. Also, providing it is used sparingly, I =
have never
had it seep out of the hub and onto the spokes, avoiding the (in my =
opinion)
terrible practice of smearing sillycone (mis-spell intended) over the =
spoke
heads inside the hub. Not to say grease does not work, it will, =
but why
not use a product designed for the purpose, and achieve clean spokes at =
the
same time?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Cheers, =
Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Healeys
[mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>gradea1@charter.net<br>
<b>Sent:</b> May-10-20 1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Perry'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'healeys@autox.team.net'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Part III Knock offs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Replacement parts-not NOS-what =
if the
knockoff bottoms out on the spline face before it tightens to the =
cone of
the wire wheel? A combination of measured errors on replacement =
parts
could create this condition-front to back. The knockoffs were made to =
tighten,
but not be whaled upon. If properly applied each side they are =
self
tightening and I normally spin them on hand tight, hit them with the =
rawhide
snug while still up in the air, and then wack them one more time on the =
ground
with the copper side of Thor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>One time in the early '70s I =
witnessed a
BMC "mechanic" whaling on a knockoff of the Healey, still =
hanging on
the lube rack, with a ten pound long handle sledge hammer! Flat =
ears? you
betcha.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>I would make sure that when =
mounted, the
front edge of the wheel is just forward of the inner depth of the =
knockoff so
that it actually contacts metal as it snugs it to the rear ring on the
hub. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Also-grease-not
to much- but be sure splines, and ring of hub, and knockoff threads have =
a
light smear. I use HD wheel bearing grease so it doesn't seep out =
the
spoke nibs like moly or light grease would. Hank<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>-----------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>From:
"Perry via Healeys" <br>
To: "rrengineer.mike@att.net"<br>
Cc: "healeys@autox.team.net"<br>
Sent: Sunday May 10 2020 9:01:21AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] The Saturday Night Rant - Part III Knock =
offs</span><span
lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Michael et =
al,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Contemplate the mechanical =
connections
between the hub extension, wire wheel hub and the knockoff. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>The hub extension is bolted to =
the axle
using tapered nuts that seat in the face of the extension. No rotational
movement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>The wire wheel is connected to =
the hub
extension via the splines. The tolerances in the splines may allow for =
some
rotational movement but they have to be loose enough to get the wheel =
off the
extension. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>What else holds the wheel in =
place=E2=80=A6the
knockoff. The cone in the knock off forces the wire wheel hub against =
the hub
extension, The contact interface is the tapers on the hub extension and =
the
wire wheel hub. You know the little area that we are frequently reminded =
to
apply a smear of grease to stop the little squeaky noise at low speed. =
If the
knock off is tight enough there is not movement here =
either.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>So Mike, if you see movement =
between the
knock off and the wire wheel, the knock off is not tight enough. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Suspect that the folks that =
developed knock
offs understood the problem of owners/mechanics not getting them tight =
enough
and used the handed (left and right) threads that self tighten. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Gentlemen, remember your Mother =
today!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Perry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA>Sent from <a
href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986";>Mail</a> for =
Windows 10<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-CA>From: </span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><a
href=3D"mailto:rrengineer.mike@att.net";>Michael MacLean</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>Healeys</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Healeys] The Saturday Night Rant - Part =
III<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>At
my age (approaching this side of 70) I am on lock down at my =
house. I
even have my groceries delivered. I will only go out to eat at a =
drive through
with an N95 mask on. My Boston Terrier that goes with me does not =
wear
one. He refuses, but he is only three years old. So, being
sequestered to my domicile I have taken up the restoration of my BN2 =
with a
vengeance. I did not know I knew so many off color phrases.
Everything to be done on this car is difficult due to parts =
incompatibility,
parts fit, parts unavailability or just my general ignorance =
and/or
incompetence. This evening I finished mounting the right side =
front hub
with all new parts. I thought I had done a nice job. No =
lateral
play in the hub. Turns easily without binding. The correct =
amount
of shims after much trial and error. Disc brake conversion was =
mounted
and braided stainless steel flex brake lines hooked up at both =
ends. I
have yet to run the brake lines. Maybe next. This rant =
is
about the brand new Dayton wire wheels. I mounted the wire wheels =
which
have temporary used tires on them so I can move the car when it is down =
off the
dollies. After mounting the wheel I gave the two eared knockoff =
several
pretty good whacks. Now the moment of truth. I grabbed the =
wheel at
9 and 3 o'clock position and pulled straight back and forth. Yay! =
No
play, but when I rocked the wheel it moved slightly. I thought it =
was the
hub, but looking closely you can see the wire wheel hub rocking back and =
forth
in the knockoff! What!?! How hard are you supposed to hit =
those
knockoffs?</span><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Mike
MacLean</span><span lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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