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A friend of mine sold her Tesla model S and bought a 2020 Cayanne Hybrid =
explicitly to tow a horse trailer. Sounded nuts to me until I read the =
specs. It=E2=80=99s actually well suited to her use.=20
> On Sep 24, 2020, at 8:27 AM, robert bownes <bownes@web9.com> wrote:
>=20
> Interesting discussion as I'm about to put my Avalanche 1500 on the =
market.=20
>=20
> The 1500 Av suited my 16' enclosed trailer well, but the 24' was a bit =
of a load. I've downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24', am =
looking for a newish 16'x7 to go with my new tow vehicle.=20
>=20
> I don't haul big loads like I used to, so something smallish that =
suits a <10,000 load and still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable =
for a long cruise was warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared =
on the radar, the wife needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose =
vehicle to the fleet. And you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it =
to move ~6,000 lbs of trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my =
Achilles a couple of weeks ago and it just didn't care. I expect the FV =
or a Spit/GT6 in the smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as =
soon as I can get a Triumph race car together, I'm hoping you all can =
make space in the FOT paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:
>=20
> A Porsche. :)
>=20
> 2010 Cayanne with the tow package. There is nothing quite like backing =
up to the trailer and hitting the 'raise' button on the suspension =
settings and having the ball lift up into the receiver.=20
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot =
> I bought an F250! I mentioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD's and =
recently switched to an F250. I may be mis-informed or possibly they =
have changed the recipe on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD's =
were virtually identical in every way other than rear axle ratios. I =
opted for the 3.73 in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the =
3.73 works just fine with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the illusion that =
I would get better gas mileage. =20
>=20
> This time around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research Fords =
versus GM to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's question =
got me to thinking about it. I found this short article which explains =
the Fords and there are minor differences between the F250 and F350's as =
listed below. =20
>=20
> In my comparison of the 2500HD's to the current F250, I find the Ford =
is less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging bones =
happier. I suppose that an F350 would be harsher.
>=20
> F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission
>=20
> Both the F250 and the F350 are available with gas or diesel engines. =
Most are equipped with the diesel because it is more economical and =
hauls/tows better. Both the F250 and F350 are also available with both =
an automatic, and manual transmission. So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain =
difference? There isn=E2=80=99t one. The F250 and F350 share the exact =
same drivetrain.
>=20
> F250 vs F350: Axles
>=20
> Depending on which year you Super Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the =
front axle may be a Dana 50 or Dana 60. Older F250s and F350s use the =
Dana 50, which is an excellent axle. Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana =
60 which is slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years of the SRW =
(Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 =
gets a slightly larger center section, otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the same =
as the F250=E2=80=99s rear axle. All years of the dually receive the =
Dana 80. Basically the only difference is the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger =
center section.
> You can read more about this in our Dana 44 vs Dana 60 =
<https://dustrunnersauto.com/dana-44-vs-dana-60/> article.
>=20
> F250 vs F350: Suspension
>=20
> All years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs =
and standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload =
springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but =
it=E2=80=99s such a small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t =
notice on the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard, =
the F250 has those same springs as an option. Something that surprised =
me is that both of these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. =
The F250 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block, which lifts the rear up =
to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a =
4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a =
slightly higher tow rating.
>=20
> To put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=
=B3 block compared to the F250=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.
>=20
> F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?
>=20
> Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention above is the fact that some states =
will consider the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your =
insurance and registration costs go up. If you live in a state where =
that is not the case, I would say get an F350. The slightly stiffer =
springs will make towing a little bit nicer. Prices for both the F250 =
and F350 are nearly identical, so there=E2=80=99s really no reason not =
to go with the F350.
>=20
> Bob Kramer
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot <fot@autox.team.net =
> I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost difference =
for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot instead of =
ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s the =
second F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious oil =
leak that would have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather =
that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all =
this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and =
got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) =
and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But =
it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for =
shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in =
REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my =
34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city =
block.=20
>=20
> But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of =
me in parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for =
a Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer =
I get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot =
off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and =
you=E2=80=99re gold.=20
>=20
> My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot <fot@autox.team.net =
>>=20
>> I realize everyone has their own preferred answer. That said:
>> I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new. Heck, we've =
killed two trailers in that time. It'll hit 400K miles before the end =
of 2020 as long as we dont have any more races cancelled. It has a =
swaybar hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to =
get a upset and require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the =
whites.
>>=20
>> It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and =
alternators. I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our =
crew cab model.
>>=20
>> Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban. An uphill departure from a fuel =
or lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few =
seconds. The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it does.
>>=20
>> And yes, it's my around town daily driver.
>>=20
>> I recall asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I =
should consider a dually. His reply was that I should only buy such a =
thing if I liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel =
trailer. Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with =
broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite =
wide enough.
>>=20
>> Just my experience.
>> Mike=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----=20
>> From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"=20
>> Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM=20
>> To: Amici Triumphi=20
>> Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings=20
>>=20
>> Hi all,
>> =20
>> I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few =
years now. It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in =
the back and 10 feet of RV in the front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen =
area). All in, full of water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs. I =
load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is =
technically a little over the payload limit of the truck, but not too =
bad.
>> =20
>> I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package =
putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with =
375hp and 470 ft lb torque. I use a good weight-distributing hitch and =
a sway control strut. And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with =
the extra load. Generally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine. =
But when it=E2=80=99s windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, =
wagging enough sometimes to set off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic =
trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a big baby=E2=80=A6).
>> =20
>> So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an =
F-250 super duty would make an appreciable difference in the towing =
performance. An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, =
depending on specs of both trucks. Is that enough to make a noticeable =
difference? Are there other factors that would make it that much better =
than an F-150?
>> =20
>> The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice =
street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) =E2=80=93 and =
it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter. The F-250 Super Duty will get =
considerably crappier mileage and will be a less friendly daily driver =
(I assume). Not to mention that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off =
and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another boatload of debt to move up to the =
F-250. Which is all to say that the towing performance improvement =
would need to be considerable before I would make the move.=20
>> =20
>> What say you, towing brain trust? Is it worth the move?
>> =20
>> Scott (B.)
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
<http://autox.team.net/archive> http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com>
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive> =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@gmail.com =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@gmail.com>
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive> =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage =
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--Apple-Mail=_54379FED-057D-4C76-9FB5-94C48A8CBF17
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charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">A =
friend of mine sold her Tesla model S and bought a 2020 Cayanne Hybrid =
explicitly to tow a horse trailer. Sounded nuts to me until I read the =
specs. It=E2=80=99s actually well suited to her use. <br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Sep 24, 2020, at 8:27 AM, robert bownes <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bownes@web9.com"; class=3D"">bownes@web9.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Interesting =
discussion as I'm about to put my Avalanche 1500 on the market.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The 1500 Av suited my =
16' enclosed trailer well, but the 24' was a bit of a load. I've =
downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24', am looking for a =
newish 16'x7 to go with my new tow vehicle.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I don't haul big loads =
like I used to, so something smallish that suits a <10,000 load and =
still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable for a long cruise was =
warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared on the radar, the wife =
needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose vehicle to the fleet. And =
you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it to move ~6,000 lbs of =
trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my Achilles a couple of =
weeks ago and it just didn't care. I expect the FV or a Spit/GT6 in the =
smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as soon as I can get a =
Triumph race car together, I'm hoping you all can make space in the FOT =
paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A Porsche. :)</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2010 Cayanne with the tow package. =
There is nothing quite like backing up to the trailer and hitting the =
'raise' button on the suspension settings and having the ball lift up =
into the receiver.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Bob</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot =
<<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"">I bought an F250! I =
mentioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD's and recently switched to =
an F250. I may be mis-informed or possibly they have changed the =
recipe on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD's were virtually =
identical in every way other than rear axle ratios. I opted for the 3.73 =
in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the 3.73 works just fine =
with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the illusion that I would get better =
gas mileage. <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This time around =
my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research Fords versus GM to =
find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's question got me to =
thinking about it. I found this short article which explains the Fords =
and there are minor differences between the F250 and F350's as =
listed below. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">In my comparison of the 2500HD's to the current F250, I find =
the Ford is less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging =
bones happier. I suppose that an F350 would be harsher.<span =
style=3D"font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></span></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><h2 =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: =
"open sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: =
baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission</h2><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: inherit; =
font-family: "open sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Both the F250 and the F350 are =
available with gas or diesel engines. Most are equipped with the diesel =
because it is more economical and hauls/tows better. Both the F250 and =
F350 are also available with both an automatic, and manual transmission. =
So what=E2=80=99s the drivetrain difference? There isn=E2=80=99t =
one. <em style=3D"margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-position: inherit; =
font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-alternates: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; =
line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;" =
class=3D"">The F250 and F350 share the exact same =
drivetrain.</em></p><h2 style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; =
border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: "open sans", Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: =
Axles</h2><p style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px =
none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: inherit; =
font-family: "open sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Depending on which year you Super =
Duty you=E2=80=99re looking at, the front axle may be a Dana 50 or Dana =
60. Older F250s and F350s use the Dana 50, which is an excellent axle. =
Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana 60 which is slightly beefier than the =
Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the =
Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 gets a slightly larger center section, =
otherwise, it=E2=80=99s the same as the F250=E2=80=99s rear axle. All =
years of the dually receive the Dana 80. <em style=3D"margin: 0px; =
padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; =
font-variant-position: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-alternates: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: =
inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Basically the only difference is =
the SRW F350=E2=80=99s larger center section.<br class=3D""></em>You can =
read more about this in our <a =
href=3D"https://dustrunnersauto.com/dana-44-vs-dana-60/"; target=3D"_blank"=
style=3D"margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-style: =
inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-position: =
inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-alternates: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-weight: 600; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; =
line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; =
color: rgb(230, 73, 70); text-decoration-line: none;" class=3D"">Dana 44 =
vs Dana 60</a> article.</p><h2 style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; =
padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: "open sans", Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: =
Suspension</h2><p style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; =
border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
14px; line-height: inherit; font-family: "open sans", =
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">All =
years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs and =
standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload =
springs. The F350=E2=80=99s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but =
it=E2=80=99s such a small difference you probably wouldn=E2=80=99t =
notice on the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard, =
the F250 has those same springs as an option. Something that surprised =
me is that both of these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. =
The F250 is equipped with a 2.5=E2=80=B3 block, which lifts the rear up =
to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a =
4=E2=80=B3 rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a =
slightly higher tow rating.</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; =
padding: 0px; border: 0px none; font-variant-numeric: inherit; =
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: =
14px; line-height: inherit; font-family: "open sans", =
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">To =
put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4=E2=80=B3 =
block compared to the F250=E2=80=99s 3.5=E2=80=B3 block.</p><h2 =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 1.5rem; line-height: 1.3; font-family: =
"open sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: =
baseline;" class=3D"">F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?</h2><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; =
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; =
font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: inherit; =
font-family: "open sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; =
vertical-align: baseline;" class=3D"">Something I didn=E2=80=99t mention =
above is the fact that some states will consider the F350 to be a =
commercial vehicle. This will make your insurance and registration costs =
go up. If you live in a state where that is not the case, I would say =
get an F350. The slightly stiffer springs will make towing a little bit =
nicer. Prices for both the F250 and F350 are nearly identical, so =
there=E2=80=99s really no reason not to go with the F350.</p><div =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Bob =
Kramer</div></div></div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep =
23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99d say =E2=80=9Cwho buys F250=E2=80=9Ds?? The cost =
difference for an F350 is trivial, especially if you buy one off the lot =
instead of ordering. I tow my Airstream toy hauler with mine, it=E2=80=99s=
the second F350 I=E2=80=99ve owned. My first one developed a serious =
oil leak that would have required removing the cab ?!!? to fix. I gather =
that removing the cab is=E2=80=99t the worst job in to world, but all =
this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in and =
got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry) =
and didn=E2=80=99t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But =
it=E2=80=99s a MUCH better truck, though I can=E2=80=99t park it for =
shit. It=E2=80=99s a twin cab with an eight foot bed. So long, as in =
REALLY long. I think it=E2=80=99s 22=E2=80=99. Hook it up to Fritz, my =
34=E2=80=99 Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it=E2=80=99s a solid city =
block. <div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But the =
diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me in =
parking lots=E2=80=94they don=E2=80=99t hear me coming. Weird for a =
Diesel. Without the trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I =
get 16 if there aren=E2=80=99t a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot =
off the accelerator, or better yet, put it in cruise at 65=E2=80=94and =
you=E2=80=99re gold. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck. </div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Sep =
23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 16px; =
font-family: arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I realize everyone has their =
own preferred answer. That said:<div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new. =
Heck, we've killed two trailers in that time. It'll hit 400K miles =
before the end of 2020 as long as we dont have any more races =
cancelled. It has a swaybar hitch that helps but an 18 wheeler =
passing can still cause it to get a upset and require a bit of opposite =
lock to keep it between the whites.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and =
alternators. I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of =
our crew cab model.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Previous tow =
vehicle was a Suburban. An uphill departure from a fuel or lunch =
stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few =
seconds. The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it =
does.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">And yes, it's my =
around town daily driver.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">I recall asking =
my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I should consider a =
dually. His reply was that I should only buy such a thing if I =
liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel trailer. =
Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with broken glass =
rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite wide =
enough.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Just my =
experience.</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Mike <br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"padding-left: 5px; =
margin-left: 0px; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal; font-style: =
normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<span =
class=3D""> </span><br class=3D"">From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"<span =
class=3D""> </span><u class=3D""></u><br class=3D"">Sent: Sep 23, =
2020 1:31 PM<span class=3D""> </span><br class=3D"">To: Amici =
Triumphi<span class=3D""> </span><u class=3D""></u><br =
class=3D"">Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings<span =
class=3D""> </span><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi all,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler =
style trailer for a few years now. It=E2=80=99s 14 feet of =
=E2=80=9Cgarage=E2=80=9D space in the back and 10 feet of RV in the =
front (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area). All in, full of =
water, car loaded, it weighs about 9,500 lbs. I load the trailer =
so I have about 1,750 pounds of tongue weight, which is technically a =
little over the payload limit of the truck, but not too bad.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u> <u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow =
package putting towing capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo =
EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft lb torque. I use a good =
weight-distributing hitch and a sway control strut. And I added =
Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra load. Generally =
speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine. But when it=E2=80=99s =
windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to =
set off the truck=E2=80=99s automatic trailer sway alarm (it=E2=80=99s a =
big baby=E2=80=A6).<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
"Century Gothic", sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">So I=E2=80=99ve been trying to determine whether =
moving up to an F-250 super duty would make an appreciable difference in =
the towing performance. An F-250 is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than =
my F-150, depending on specs of both trucks. Is that enough to =
make a noticeable difference? Are there other factors that would =
make it that much better than an F-150?<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed =
trans makes for a nice street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 =
average) =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s what I drive all winter. The =
F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappier mileage and will be a =
less friendly daily driver (I assume). Not to mention that my =
F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I=E2=80=99d be taking on another =
boatload of debt to move up to the F-250. Which is all to say that =
the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before =
I would make the move. <u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">What say you, towing brain trust? Is it =
worth the move?<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
"Century Gothic", sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Century Gothic", =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Scott (B.)<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></div></div><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></blockquote></div></div><span style=3D"font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: =
inline;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
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