--===============2449150387030302490==
--0000000000006d180305a1993451
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I did have a sound block that came without bearing caps and a supply of
"almost fit" caps. Not wanting to waste a good block I spent the money to
have it line bored. I've got a pretty talented machinist here in Austin
and he trimmed down the caps before sending it out to get lined bored.
Worked fine. Unfortunately the outsourced machine shop that he used for
the line bore shut down a few years back.
Bob Kramer
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:47 AM Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com> wrote:
> Yes, Bob, as far as I know you are correct, the bearing notches in the
> caps and saddles are always on the same side.
> In the TR wet sleeve engine, each cap is unique as to its position, so it
> should be really hard to mix them up.
> Kas is right, however, in that in many engines it is good practice to mar=
k
> each cap as to position and orientation, just to be sure.
> I have had a wet sleeve block line bored just to true it up at ABT machin=
e
> in Holliston, Mass. This creates two issues that must be addressed, both
> due to the slight raising of the crank center line:
> 1) the clearance space of the top of the pistons needs to be checked to b=
e
> sure there is no interference at TDC. Usually not a problem.
> 2) more of a problem is that the aluminum insert for the rear main seal
> may interfere with the block. This will become apparent when using the
> centering tool, and can be addressed by filing down the area of the seal
> where it interferes. Do not file or alter any other surface, as this will
> compromise the ability of the seal to function and/or to hold correctly o=
ne
> of the aftermarket rubber seals. Be careful also not to gouge the face o=
f
> the aluminum seal where it mates with the flat surface of the block. Go
> slow and be careful. It should all work as intended.
> Phil Gott
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFDon=E2=80=99t all the main bearing caps go in with bearing notch=
es on the same
> side as the notches in the saddles in the block? Or is that just a TR4
> thing?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot <
> fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> firstly, are you 100% sure the caps are correctly fitted both round the
> right way and in number order?
>
> you need to decide if the caps are misaligned across the block or if the
> tunnel is simply oval because the hole in in cap is too far up or down.
> this will need a combination of feel and measurement
>
> if the alternative caps have a significant step to 1 side, so you will
> clearly feel a ledge at the mating faces when they are tightened up
>
> if the stap is very minor, like a few thousandths of an inch, then the
> faces of the cap are machined down to create an oval hole, then it it is
> align honed
>
> if it is really bad, like many tens of thou, then you have to firstly mov=
e
> the cap sideways by machining the register on 1 side and peening it on th=
e
> other, and effectively moving it sideways, followed by boring/honing
>
> sometimes, the bolts are too neat a fit to allow this and if thats the
> case, its usually easier to find some other caps or make them
>
> if the tunnel is simply an oval because the cap is too far up or down,
> this is usually easily fixed by facing the cap mating surfaces and rebori=
ng
> the tunnels
>
> not all engine machine shop have a line borer...mine did not, so
> subcontracting the job is not uncommon
>
> the end result should be a perfectly round hole with a super fine hone
> (cross-hatch) mark on the bearing faces, to ensure perfect bearing
> shell contact
>
> Terry
> Australia
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM Bud Rolofson via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of main caps I bought a block that turned out to not have the
>> original main caps. The caps on there did not match up with the block bu=
t
>> I=E2=80=99ve been unable to find a machine shop that can machine them so=
there=E2=80=99s a
>> round hole for the crank. The shop I had do my last block (and they do 4=
27
>> race engines among others and are well respected) told me that the resul=
t
>> would be ovaled out holes (not round) which obviously is not good.
>> Certainly there=E2=80=99s a way to make this work but I haven=E2=80=99t =
found it. I
>> checked out another block shop but said they subcontract line-boring to =
the
>> the shop that said they couldn=E2=80=99t do it.
>>
>> Has anyone else encountered this problem? I=E2=80=99ve heard that steel =
mains
>> might be an answer but they=E2=80=99d still have to be line-bored to mak=
e them
>> match. I hate to ship a block to get this done before I have reassurance=
s
>> that they can make it work but does anyone know of that has successfully
>> made main caps match the block? Given I=E2=80=99m spending a lot of time=
these days
>> staying home and catching up on car projects in the shop I figured it wo=
uld
>> be a good time to start building the next engine.
>>
>> Solutions or recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bud
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 22, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Brad Eells via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Amici,
>>
>> In typically rookie race engine builder mode with the block I selected
>> for rebuild, I pulled the main bearing caps (with my new fancy DeWalt 20=
V
>> Impact Wrench) and then couldn't remember which way around they went.
>>
>> This led to visions of catastrophic failure somewhere down the road. Yet=
,
>> I had several other blocks I could flip over and make a determination if
>> need be.
>>
>> I was examining one of the caps when I discovered the faintest engraving
>> on the surface of each cap:
>>
>> Eng #2 Front Fwd
>> Eng #2 Mid Fwd
>> Eng #2 Rr Fwd
>>
>> Doug Brown, my original owner/builder/driver extraordinaire had engraved
>> each cap for me to make sure a mistake didn't occur. He rotated 3 engine=
s
>> during each season in a quest for Divisional and National Championships.
>>
>> I guess that is the way a aeronautical/mechanical engineer and very
>> successful racer thinks.
>>
>> Thanks again Doug!
>>
>> <IMG_8745.jpg>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> *Brad Eells*
>> *Chino CA*
>> *#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3*
>> *#35 DP 1962 Triumph TR4*
>> *1965 Triumph TR4A IRS...for the road!*
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot@autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/levilevi@comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>> Bud Rolofson
>>
>> Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)
>>
>> 71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
>> 71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
>> 69 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)
>> 93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle
>> 77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot@autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>=
:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com
>
>
>
--0000000000006d180305a1993451
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I did have a sound block that came without bearing caps an=
d a supply of "almost fit" caps. Not wanting to waste a good bloc=
k I spent the money to have it line bored.=C2=A0 I've got a pretty tale=
nted machinist here in Austin and he trimmed down the caps before sending i=
t out to get lined bored. Worked fine.=C2=A0 Unfortunately the outsourced m=
achine=C2=A0shop that he used for the line bore shut down a few years back.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_si=
gnature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</di=
v></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:47 AM Phil Gott <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol.com";>vfracing@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Yes, Bob, =
as far as I know you are correct, the bearing notches in the caps and saddl=
es are always on the same side.=C2=A0<div>In the TR wet sleeve engine, each=
cap is unique as to its position, so it should be really hard to mix them =
up.</div><div>Kas is right, however, in that in many engines it is good pra=
ctice to mark each cap as to position and orientation, just to be sure.</di=
v><div>I have had a wet sleeve block line bored just to true it up at ABT m=
achine in Holliston, Mass. This creates two issues that must be addressed, =
both due to the slight raising of the crank center line:</div><div>1) the c=
learance space of the top of the pistons needs to be checked to be sure the=
re is no interference at TDC. Usually not a problem.</div><div>2) more of a=
problem is that the aluminum insert for the rear main seal may interfere w=
ith the block. This will become apparent when using the centering tool, and=
can be addressed by filing down the area of the seal where it interferes. =
Do not file or alter any other surface, as this will compromise the ability=
of the seal to function and/or to hold correctly one of the aftermarket ru=
bber seals.=C2=A0 Be careful also not to gouge the face of the aluminum sea=
l where it mates with the flat surface of the block. Go slow and be careful=
. It should all work as intended.</div><div>Phil Gott</div><div><br><br><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite">On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Bob Kramer via Fot <<a href=3D"=
mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wro=
te:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
=EF=BB=BFDon=E2=80=99t all the main bearing caps go in with bearing notches=
on the same side as the notches in the saddles in the block? Or is that ju=
st a TR4 thing?<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Enquiri=
es Road & Track via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">firstly,=
are you 100% sure the caps are correctly fitted both round the right way a=
nd in number order?<div><br></div><div>you need to decide if the caps are m=
isaligned across the block or if the tunnel is simply oval because=C2=A0the=
hole in in cap is too far up or down. this will need a combination of feel=
and measurement<br><div><br></div><div><div>if the alternative=C2=A0caps h=
ave a significant step to 1 side, so you will clearly feel a ledge at the m=
ating faces when they are tightened up<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>if=
the stap is very minor, like a few thousandths=C2=A0of an inch, then the f=
aces of the cap are machined down to create an oval hole, then it it is ali=
gn honed</div><div><br></div><div>if it is really bad, like many tens of th=
ou, then you have to firstly move the cap sideways by machining the registe=
r on 1 side and peening=C2=A0it on the other, and effectively moving it sid=
eways, followed by boring/honing</div><div><br></div><div>sometimes, the bo=
lts are too neat a fit to allow this and if thats the case, its usually eas=
ier to find some other caps or make them</div><div><br></div><div>if the tu=
nnel is simply=C2=A0an=C2=A0oval because the cap is too far up or down, thi=
s is usually easily fixed by facing the cap mating surfaces and reboring th=
e tunnels</div><div><br></div><div>not all engine machine shop have a line =
borer...mine did not, so subcontracting the job is not uncommon</div><div><=
br></div><div>the end result should be a perfectly round hole with a super =
fine hone (cross-hatch) mark on the bearing faces, to ensure=C2=A0perfect b=
earing shell=C2=A0contact</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0Terry</div><div>Au=
stralia</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div></d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM Bud Rolofson via Fot <<a href=3D"mail=
to:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Speaking of=
main caps I bought a block that turned out to not have the original main c=
aps. The caps on there did not match up with the block but I=E2=80=99ve bee=
n unable to find a machine shop that can machine them so there=E2=80=99s a =
round hole for the crank. The shop I had do my last block (and they do 427 =
race engines among others and are well respected) told me that the result w=
ould be ovaled out holes (not round) which obviously is not good.<div>Certa=
inly there=E2=80=99s a way to make this work but I haven=E2=80=99t found it=
. I checked out another block shop but said they subcontract line-boring to=
the the shop that said they couldn=E2=80=99t do it.=C2=A0</div><div><br></=
div><div>Has anyone else encountered this problem? I=E2=80=99ve heard that =
steel mains might be an answer but they=E2=80=99d still have to be line-bor=
ed to make them match. I hate to ship a block to get this done before I hav=
e reassurances that they can make it work but does anyone know of that has =
successfully made main caps match the block? Given I=E2=80=99m spending a l=
ot of time these days staying home and catching up on car projects in the s=
hop I figured it would be a good time to start building the next engine.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Solutions or recommendations?</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Thanks</div><div>Bud<br><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<br><div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 22, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Brad Eells via Fot <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>&g=
t; wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Amici,<div><br></div><div>In typic=
ally rookie race engine builder mode with the block I selected for rebuild,=
I pulled the main bearing caps (with my new fancy DeWalt 20V Impact Wrench=
) and then couldn't remember which way around they went.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>This led to visions of catastrophic failure somewhere down=
the road. Yet, I had several other blocks I could flip over and make a det=
ermination if need be.</div><div><br></div><div>I was examining one of the =
caps when I discovered the faintest engraving on the surface of each cap:<b=
r><br>Eng #2 Front Fwd</div><div>Eng #2 Mid Fwd</div><div>Eng #2 Rr Fwd</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Doug Brown, my original owner/builder/driver extraord=
inaire had engraved each cap for me to make sure a mistake didn't occur=
. He rotated 3 engines during each season in a quest for Divisional and Nat=
ional Championships.</div><div><br></div><div>I guess that is the way a aer=
onautical/mechanical engineer and very successful=C2=A0racer thinks.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Thanks again Doug!</div><div><br></div><div><div><span i=
d=3D"gmail-m_5999784650031042352gmail-m_-3422984220944576185gmail-m_2395422=
064748517556cid:ii_k83wus460"><IMG_8745.jpg></span><br></div><div><br=
></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div=
style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>Brad Eells</font></b></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>Chino CA</font></b></div><div style=3D"font-=
size:12.8px"><b><font>#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3</font></b></div><div=
style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>#35 DP 1962 Triumph TR4</font></b></di=
v><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>1965 Triumph TR4A IRS...for the =
road!</font></b><br></div></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font><i=
mg width=3D"96" height=3D"94"><br></font></b></div><div><br></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br=
><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/options/fot/levilevi@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/fot/levilevi@comcast.net</a><br><br><br></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br><div>
Bud Rolofson<br><br>Extreme Parts Racing=C2=A0(more than just a haircut)<br=
><br>71TR6 CC57365 (Good=C2=A06)<br>71 Spitfire MK IV Race=C2=A0Car #3<br>6=
9 Spitfire MK III (back=C2=A0up FE engine/dinghy car)<br>93 Minnie Winnie R=
ace=C2=A0Support Vehicle=C2=A0<br>77 Z-50A Hardly=C2=A0Davidson Honda Mini-=
Trail Bike (Triumph Pit=C2=A0Bike)
</div>
<br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a></=
span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span=
>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http=
://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://=
autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>=
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/pipermail/fot</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"=
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@gmail.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@gmail.com</a></sp=
an><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote><span>_________=
______________________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:fo=
t@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a></span><br><span>=
</span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"htt=
p://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/fot</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com</a></span><br><span></span><=
br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>
--0000000000006d180305a1993451--
--===============2449150387030302490==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
--===============2449150387030302490==--
|