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Yes, Bob, as far as I know you are correct, the bearing notches in the caps a=
nd saddles are always on the same side.=20
In the TR wet sleeve engine, each cap is unique as to its position, so it sh=
ould be really hard to mix them up.
Kas is right, however, in that in many engines it is good practice to mark e=
ach cap as to position and orientation, just to be sure.
I have had a wet sleeve block line bored just to true it up at ABT machine i=
n Holliston, Mass. This creates two issues that must be addressed, both due t=
o the slight raising of the crank center line:
1) the clearance space of the top of the pistons needs to be checked to be s=
ure there is no interference at TDC. Usually not a problem.
2) more of a problem is that the aluminum insert for the rear main seal may i=
nterfere with the block. This will become apparent when using the centering t=
ool, and can be addressed by filing down the area of the seal where it inter=
feres. Do not file or alter any other surface, as this will compromise the a=
bility of the seal to function and/or to hold correctly one of the aftermark=
et rubber seals. Be careful also not to gouge the face of the aluminum seal=
where it mates with the flat surface of the block. Go slow and be careful. I=
t should all work as intended.
Phil Gott
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrot=
e:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFDon=E2=80=99t all the main bearing caps go in with bearing notche=
s on the same side as the notches in the saddles in the block? Or is that ju=
st a TR4 thing?
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot <fot@autox.t=
eam.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> firstly, are you 100% sure the caps are correctly fitted both round the r=
ight way and in number order?
>>=20
>> you need to decide if the caps are misaligned across the block or if the t=
unnel is simply oval because the hole in in cap is too far up or down. this w=
ill need a combination of feel and measurement
>>=20
>> if the alternative caps have a significant step to 1 side, so you will cl=
early feel a ledge at the mating faces when they are tightened up
>>=20
>> if the stap is very minor, like a few thousandths of an inch, then the fa=
ces of the cap are machined down to create an oval hole, then it it is align=
honed
>>=20
>> if it is really bad, like many tens of thou, then you have to firstly mov=
e the cap sideways by machining the register on 1 side and peening it on the=
other, and effectively moving it sideways, followed by boring/honing
>>=20
>> sometimes, the bolts are too neat a fit to allow this and if thats the ca=
se, its usually easier to find some other caps or make them
>>=20
>> if the tunnel is simply an oval because the cap is too far up or down, th=
is is usually easily fixed by facing the cap mating surfaces and reboring th=
e tunnels
>>=20
>> not all engine machine shop have a line borer...mine did not, so subcontr=
acting the job is not uncommon
>>=20
>> the end result should be a perfectly round hole with a super fine hone (c=
ross-hatch) mark on the bearing faces, to ensure perfect bearing shell conta=
ct
>>=20
>> Terry
>> Australia
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM Bud Rolofson via Fot <fot@autox.team.net=
> wrote:
>>> Speaking of main caps I bought a block that turned out to not have the o=
riginal main caps. The caps on there did not match up with the block but I=E2=
=80=99ve been unable to find a machine shop that can machine them so there=E2=
=80=99s a round hole for the crank. The shop I had do my last block (and the=
y do 427 race engines among others and are well respected) told me that the r=
esult would be ovaled out holes (not round) which obviously is not good.
>>> Certainly there=E2=80=99s a way to make this work but I haven=E2=80=99t f=
ound it. I checked out another block shop but said they subcontract line-bor=
ing to the the shop that said they couldn=E2=80=99t do it.=20
>>>=20
>>> Has anyone else encountered this problem? I=E2=80=99ve heard that steel m=
ains might be an answer but they=E2=80=99d still have to be line-bored to ma=
ke them match. I hate to ship a block to get this done before I have reassur=
ances that they can make it work but does anyone know of that has successful=
ly made main caps match the block? Given I=E2=80=99m spending a lot of time t=
hese days staying home and catching up on car projects in the shop I figured=
it would be a good time to start building the next engine.
>>>=20
>>> Solutions or recommendations?
>>>=20
>>> Thanks
>>> Bud
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>> On Mar 22, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Brad Eells via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wr=
ote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Amici,
>>>>=20
>>>> In typically rookie race engine builder mode with the block I selected f=
or rebuild, I pulled the main bearing caps (with my new fancy DeWalt 20V Imp=
act Wrench) and then couldn't remember which way around they went.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> This led to visions of catastrophic failure somewhere down the road. Ye=
t, I had several other blocks I could flip over and make a determination if n=
eed be.
>>>>=20
>>>> I was examining one of the caps when I discovered the faintest engravin=
g on the surface of each cap:
>>>>=20
>>>> Eng #2 Front Fwd
>>>> Eng #2 Mid Fwd
>>>> Eng #2 Rr Fwd
>>>>=20
>>>> Doug Brown, my original owner/builder/driver extraordinaire had engrave=
d each cap for me to make sure a mistake didn't occur. He rotated 3 engines d=
uring each season in a quest for Divisional and National Championships.
>>>>=20
>>>> I guess that is the way a aeronautical/mechanical engineer and very suc=
cessful racer thinks.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks again Doug!
>>>>=20
>>>> <IMG_8745.jpg>
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Brad Eells
>>>> Chino CA
>>>> #72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3
>>>> #35 DP 1962 Triumph TR4
>>>> 1965 Triumph TR4A IRS...for the road!
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> fot@autox.team.net
>>>>=20
>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fo=
t
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/levilevi@=
comcast.net
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Bud Rolofson
>>>=20
>>> Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)
>>>=20
>>> 71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
>>> 71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
>>> 69 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)
>>> 93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle=20
>>> 77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot@autox.team.net
>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries@=
roadandtrack.net.au
>>>=20
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot@autox.team.net
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56@g=
mail.com
>>=20
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol=
.com
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail-22A21F63-0712-4840-BF62-8B4BB6161616
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Yes, Bob, as far as I know you are correct,=
the bearing notches in the caps and saddles are always on the same side.&nb=
sp;<div>In the TR wet sleeve engine, each cap is unique as to its position, s=
o it should be really hard to mix them up.</div><div>Kas is right, however, i=
n that in many engines it is good practice to mark each cap as to position a=
nd orientation, just to be sure.</div><div>I have had a wet sleeve block lin=
e bored just to true it up at ABT machine in Holliston, Mass. This creates t=
wo issues that must be addressed, both due to the slight raising of the cran=
k center line:</div><div>1) the clearance space of the top of the pistons ne=
eds to be checked to be sure there is no interference at TDC. Usually not a p=
roblem.</div><div>2) more of a problem is that the aluminum insert for the r=
ear main seal may interfere with the block. This will become apparent when u=
sing the centering tool, and can be addressed by filing down the area of the=
seal where it interferes. Do not file or alter any other surface, as this w=
ill compromise the ability of the seal to function and/or to hold correctly o=
ne of the aftermarket rubber seals. Be careful also not to gouge the f=
ace of the aluminum seal where it mates with the flat surface of the block. G=
o slow and be careful. It should all work as intended.</div><div>Phil Gott</=
div><div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Bob Kramer via Fo=
t <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" cont=
ent=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Don=E2=80=99t all the main bearing caps g=
o in with bearing notches on the same side as the notches in the saddles in t=
he block? Or is that just a TR4 thing?<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my i=
Phone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 23, 2020, a=
t 6:59 PM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wro=
te:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">firstly, are you 100% sure the caps are correctly fit=
ted both round the right way and in number order?<div><br></div><div>you nee=
d to decide if the caps are misaligned across the block or if the tunnel is s=
imply oval because the hole in in cap is too far up or down. this will n=
eed a combination of feel and measurement<br><div><br></div><div><div>if the=
alternative caps have a significant step to 1 side, so you will clearl=
y feel a ledge at the mating faces when they are tightened up<br></div><div>=
<div><br></div><div>if the stap is very minor, like a few thousandths o=
f an inch, then the faces of the cap are machined down to create an oval hol=
e, then it it is align honed</div><div><br></div><div>if it is really bad, l=
ike many tens of thou, then you have to firstly move the cap sideways by mac=
hining the register on 1 side and peening it on the other, and effectiv=
ely moving it sideways, followed by boring/honing</div><div><br></div><div>s=
ometimes, the bolts are too neat a fit to allow this and if thats the case, i=
ts usually easier to find some other caps or make them</div><div><br></div><=
div>if the tunnel is simply an oval because the cap is too far up o=
r down, this is usually easily fixed by facing the cap mating surfaces and r=
eboring the tunnels</div><div><br></div><div>not all engine machine shop hav=
e a line borer...mine did not, so subcontracting the job is not uncommon</di=
v><div><br></div><div>the end result should be a perfectly round hole with a=
super fine hone (cross-hatch) mark on the bearing faces, to ensure per=
fect bearing shell contact</div><div><br></div><div> Terry</div><d=
iv>Australia</div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D=
"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><b=
r></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div><br></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM Bud Rol=
ofson via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fo=
t@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div>Speaking of main caps I bought a block that turned out to=
not have the original main caps. The caps on there did not match up with th=
e block but I=E2=80=99ve been unable to find a machine shop that can machine=
them so there=E2=80=99s a round hole for the crank. The shop I had do my la=
st block (and they do 427 race engines among others and are well respected) t=
old me that the result would be ovaled out holes (not round) which obviously=
is not good.<div>Certainly there=E2=80=99s a way to make this work but I ha=
ven=E2=80=99t found it. I checked out another block shop but said they subco=
ntract line-boring to the the shop that said they couldn=E2=80=99t do it.&nb=
sp;</div><div><br></div><div>Has anyone else encountered this problem? I=E2=80=
=99ve heard that steel mains might be an answer but they=E2=80=99d still hav=
e to be line-bored to make them match. I hate to ship a block to get this do=
ne before I have reassurances that they can make it work but does anyone kno=
w of that has successfully made main caps match the block? Given I=E2=80=99m=
spending a lot of time these days staying home and catching up on car proje=
cts in the shop I figured it would be a good time to start building the next=
engine.</div><div><br></div><div>Solutions or recommendations?</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Bud<br><div><br></div><div> <br><div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 22, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Brad Eells via Fot &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.ne=
t</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Amici,<div><br></div><div>In=
typically rookie race engine builder mode with the block I selected for reb=
uild, I pulled the main bearing caps (with my new fancy DeWalt 20V Impact Wr=
ench) and then couldn't remember which way around they went. </div><div=
><br></div><div>This led to visions of catastrophic failure somewhere down t=
he road. Yet, I had several other blocks I could flip over and make a determ=
ination if need be.</div><div><br></div><div>I was examining one of the caps=
when I discovered the faintest engraving on the surface of each cap:<br><br=
>Eng #2 Front Fwd</div><div>Eng #2 Mid Fwd</div><div>Eng #2 Rr Fwd</div><div=
><br></div><div>Doug Brown, my original owner/builder/driver extraordinaire h=
ad engraved each cap for me to make sure a mistake didn't occur. He rotated 3=
engines during each season in a quest for Divisional and National Champions=
hips.</div><div><br></div><div>I guess that is the way a aeronautical/mechan=
ical engineer and very successful racer thinks.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Thanks again Doug!</div><div><br></div><div><div><span id=3D"gmail-m_-3422=
984220944576185gmail-m_2395422064748517556cid:ii_k83wus460"><IMG_8745.jpg=
></span><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>Brad Eells</fon=
t></b></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>Chino CA</font></b></di=
v><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3<=
/font></b></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>#35 DP 1962 Triumph=
TR4</font></b></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><font>1965 Triumph T=
R4A IRS...for the road!</font></b><br></div></div><div style=3D"font-size:12=
.8px"><b><font><img src=3D"https://docs.google.com/uc?export=3Ddownload&=
id=3D1HyYLxa1_Lz_Q0kLM3GRJryNDgfOwZyUc&revid=3D0B9vVTDWaFCqFVmR6Q1FsMExZ=
THVLcHpja3BpSC9ucGcveHdJPQ" width=3D"96" height=3D"94" data-unique-identifie=
r=3D""><br></font></b></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@aut=
ox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br><br><a href=3D"http=
://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><b=
r>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http=
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ilman/options/fot/levilevi@comcast.net</a><br><br><br></div></blockquote></d=
iv><br><div>
Bud Rolofson<br><br>Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)<br>=
<br>71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)<br>71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3<br>69 S=
pitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)<br>93 Minnie Winnie Race&=
nbsp;Support Vehicle <br>77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail=
Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)
</div>
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</blockquote></div>
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