Hi Dick
Your solution would be fine by me.
regards
Jeremy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard E. Buckingham, Jr." <rebjrmd@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Jeremy Braithwaite" <atroz@compuserve.com>
Cc: "Derek Harling" <derek.lola@sympatico.ca>; "Vintage Race"
<vintage-race@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Speed Differentials
>
> Hi, I totally agree that Formula Vs and Formula 5000 aren't a good mix. I
> should have been a little more clear. SOVREN runs CanAm, Formula 5000,
Formula
> 1, wings & slicks cars in what we call our "Exhibition Class. Formula Vs
and
> front engine Jrs run with the Vintage small bore production cars. So, our
> Formula/Sports Racer group consists of Formula Ford, rear engine Jrs,
Formula B
> and cars like Lotus 23, Elva Mk VII, Bobsy SR II and III, etc. The height
of
> the cars is similar which I think is one of the biggest problems with
mixing
> say Mustangs and Formula Fords. Hope this clears things a big. Dick
>
> Jeremy Braithwaite wrote:
>
> > Dick
> > I'd suggest that speed differential is only part of the equation. Other
> > factors are:
> > a. The mass differential - ie mixing say 400kg FF's with 700kg +
F5000's.
> > b. The technology - ie mixing wings 'n slicks cars with those with
treaded
> > tyres.
> >
> > Its in the interests of both promoters and competitors to get the mix
right.
> > Over the last couple of years our main promoter in Sydney Australia -
the
> > HSRCA - has insisted on gridding FF's with F5000 and big banger sports
cars.
> > Prior to that we had been regularly producing FF grids of 15+. Today
the
> > number has dwindled to half or less at some meetings. During the same
> > period the VHRR in Victoria - which has done a wonderful job of
promoting
> > the category and given FF's their own races - has built fields of 25+.
> >
> > As the guy who started the category in Sydney I'm obviously
disappointed.
> > At a personal level things came to a head at Oran Park a year ago when I
> > beat some of the F5000's in the field in my Lotus 61 .... the same one
we
> > took to Monterey in 95. Thinking about it afterwards - and particularly
the
> > likely consequences of a spin and being cleaned up (by a 2 or 3 times a
year
> > driver in a car much faster than him) - made me realise that sooner or
later
> > we were going to have a very nasty accident. Just saying we haven't had
one
> > to date in no way proves the counter-argument!
> >
> > To explain the extent of the problem - Oran Park is 1.2 miles
anti-clockwise
> > with a 700+ yard straight. The racing line remains on the right hand
side
> > of the straight allowing a wide entry into the left hander at the end.
In a
> > FF you can clear your mirrors exiting the corner onto the straight -
check
> > your mirrors through the straight and at the end - and still turn into a
> > F5000 that has done a run down the left hand side of the very wide
track.
> > Not good.
> >
> > Anyway - I've voted with my feet. The Lotus is for sale and I'm having
fun
> > racing my modern FF with our future F1 starts pending the likely
acquisition
> > of a 1960's car.
> >
> > There obviously needs to be some commonsense rules or guidelines
developed.
> > Its OK to run FF, FJ and FV with clubman cars and lightweight sports
racers
> > such as Lotus 23 etc. Its not OK to run the above with CanAm, F5000 or
F1.
> > Its definitely not OK - and bloody dangerous - to mix sedans with open
> > wheelers or sports racers.
> >
> > Where an undesirable mix is inevitable a couple of suggestions we have
used
> > over here:
> > a. Do two separate starts. Get the faster cars away first and then 5 or
10
> > seconds later drop the flag a second time. If you insist on rolling
starts
> > use 2 pace cars and keep them apart. This minimises the first corner
> > problem and ensures that the field is spread out when the faster cars
start
> > lapping the slower ones.
> > b. Agree a local rule between the faster cars that they observe the
> > equivalent of a yellow flag rule when they're working through traffic.
The
> > lead driver raises his arm - the faster cars stop racing and go through
line
> > astern - they signal again to start racing after the pass has been
safely
> > completed.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Jeremy Braithwaite
> > Age & Treachery Racing Australia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard E. Buckingham, Jr." <rebjrmd@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: "Derek Harling" <derek.lola@sympatico.ca>
> > Cc: "Vintage Race" <vintage-race@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 3:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: Speed Differentials
> >
> > >
> > > Derek, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am also opposed to
grandiose
> > and
> > > all inclusive statements like these becoming conventional wisdom. I
am
> > Race
> > > Chairman of SOVREN. We have run Group 6 as a mix of Formula cars and
> > Sports
> > > Racers for 10 years. I know of NO incidents that have been related to
a
> > mix
> > > of open and closed wheeled cars. However, when we started doing this
you
> > > should have heard the howls of protest--"you can't do that, it is
unsafe."
> > > "It's never been allowed because it is unsafe." What finally allowed
us
> > to
> > > institute this policy against the dogmatic naysayers was a look at the
> > history
> > > of racing in the Pacific Northwest, and we clearly showed that this
> > practice
> > > had been going on for years "in the era" i.e. at the SeaFair races.
It
> > has
> > > now become accepted policy and no one questions it. As for your first
> > point,
> > > SOVREN unlike many other vintage racing clubs groups their cars by age
and
> > > engine size as opposed to lap times or speed potential so we do have
> > fairly
> > > big speed disparities in many of our groups. I totally agree that the
> > danger
> > > of speed differentials or rapid closing speeds is the element of
surprise.
> > > When the slow cars are cognizant that they are running with fast cars
and
> > are
> > > watching their mirrors there is less chance of surprise, and when the
fast
> > > cars drive responsibly by passing in "the usual places" and don't do
bonzi
> > > (s?) late breaking maneuvers, overtaking the slower cars line at the
last
> > > minute, then there is less chance of surprising (scaring) the drivers
of
> > the
> > > slower cars. I always tell people that what we do is Gentlemanly
Racing
> > for
> > > the "love of the sport." (I don't want to rehash that Corinthian
thread
> > of
> > > last year again!) A Gentleman is courteous and doesn't want to have
fun
> > at
> > > the expense of someone else. (Of course that doesn't mean you can't
whup
> > 'em
> > > "fair and square.")
> > > Dick Buckingham, Jr.
> > > Race Chairman -- SOVREN
> > > Past President -- VMC
> > >
> > > Derek Harling wrote:
> > >
> > > > Someone recently wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > With lower speed differentials, you lessen the likelihood of
> > > > > serious incidents.
> > > >
> > > > . . . . and if you don't take your car on the track you lessen it
even
> > > > more.
> > > >
> > > > Seriously - if there are two racing "truths" that I think are far
too
> > > > frequently believed they are
> > > > - big speed differentials are dangerous - and -
> > > > - mixing closed wheel and open wheel is dangerous.
> > > >
> > > > Bunk. Both.
> > > >
> > > > Big speed differentials are only dangerous if they surprise anyone.
Use
> > > > your eyes, your mirrors and your brain and you won't be surprised.
> > > > Obviously that applies to both overtaker and overtakee. We have
> > mirrors -
> > > > use 'em. If you don't know what is going on all around you at all
> > times -
> > > > you shouldn't be out there. I still shudder at the comment heard
many
> > years
> > > > ago while walking away from a drivers meeting - "I don't have time
to
> > look
> > > > in my mirrors when I'm out there".
> > > >
> > > > Open wheel and closed wheel - dangerous? - why? Not as dangerous as
> > mixing
> > > > open wheel and open wheel.
> > > >
> > > > If you believe either of the above "truths" you're not thinking
> > straight -
> > > > please don't race with me.
> > > >
> > > > Derek
> > >
>
>
|