Hi, I totally agree that Formula Vs and Formula 5000 aren't a good mix. I
should have been a little more clear. SOVREN runs CanAm, Formula 5000, Formula
1, wings & slicks cars in what we call our "Exhibition Class. Formula Vs and
front engine Jrs run with the Vintage small bore production cars. So, our
Formula/Sports Racer group consists of Formula Ford, rear engine Jrs, Formula B
and cars like Lotus 23, Elva Mk VII, Bobsy SR II and III, etc. The height of
the cars is similar which I think is one of the biggest problems with mixing
say Mustangs and Formula Fords. Hope this clears things a big. Dick
Jeremy Braithwaite wrote:
> Dick
> I'd suggest that speed differential is only part of the equation. Other
> factors are:
> a. The mass differential - ie mixing say 400kg FF's with 700kg + F5000's.
> b. The technology - ie mixing wings 'n slicks cars with those with treaded
> tyres.
>
> Its in the interests of both promoters and competitors to get the mix right.
> Over the last couple of years our main promoter in Sydney Australia - the
> HSRCA - has insisted on gridding FF's with F5000 and big banger sports cars.
> Prior to that we had been regularly producing FF grids of 15+. Today the
> number has dwindled to half or less at some meetings. During the same
> period the VHRR in Victoria - which has done a wonderful job of promoting
> the category and given FF's their own races - has built fields of 25+.
>
> As the guy who started the category in Sydney I'm obviously disappointed.
> At a personal level things came to a head at Oran Park a year ago when I
> beat some of the F5000's in the field in my Lotus 61 .... the same one we
> took to Monterey in 95. Thinking about it afterwards - and particularly the
> likely consequences of a spin and being cleaned up (by a 2 or 3 times a year
> driver in a car much faster than him) - made me realise that sooner or later
> we were going to have a very nasty accident. Just saying we haven't had one
> to date in no way proves the counter-argument!
>
> To explain the extent of the problem - Oran Park is 1.2 miles anti-clockwise
> with a 700+ yard straight. The racing line remains on the right hand side
> of the straight allowing a wide entry into the left hander at the end. In a
> FF you can clear your mirrors exiting the corner onto the straight - check
> your mirrors through the straight and at the end - and still turn into a
> F5000 that has done a run down the left hand side of the very wide track.
> Not good.
>
> Anyway - I've voted with my feet. The Lotus is for sale and I'm having fun
> racing my modern FF with our future F1 starts pending the likely acquisition
> of a 1960's car.
>
> There obviously needs to be some commonsense rules or guidelines developed.
> Its OK to run FF, FJ and FV with clubman cars and lightweight sports racers
> such as Lotus 23 etc. Its not OK to run the above with CanAm, F5000 or F1.
> Its definitely not OK - and bloody dangerous - to mix sedans with open
> wheelers or sports racers.
>
> Where an undesirable mix is inevitable a couple of suggestions we have used
> over here:
> a. Do two separate starts. Get the faster cars away first and then 5 or 10
> seconds later drop the flag a second time. If you insist on rolling starts
> use 2 pace cars and keep them apart. This minimises the first corner
> problem and ensures that the field is spread out when the faster cars start
> lapping the slower ones.
> b. Agree a local rule between the faster cars that they observe the
> equivalent of a yellow flag rule when they're working through traffic. The
> lead driver raises his arm - the faster cars stop racing and go through line
> astern - they signal again to start racing after the pass has been safely
> completed.
>
> regards
>
> Jeremy Braithwaite
> Age & Treachery Racing Australia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard E. Buckingham, Jr." <rebjrmd@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "Derek Harling" <derek.lola@sympatico.ca>
> Cc: "Vintage Race" <vintage-race@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 3:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Speed Differentials
>
> >
> > Derek, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am also opposed to grandiose
> and
> > all inclusive statements like these becoming conventional wisdom. I am
> Race
> > Chairman of SOVREN. We have run Group 6 as a mix of Formula cars and
> Sports
> > Racers for 10 years. I know of NO incidents that have been related to a
> mix
> > of open and closed wheeled cars. However, when we started doing this you
> > should have heard the howls of protest--"you can't do that, it is unsafe."
> > "It's never been allowed because it is unsafe." What finally allowed us
> to
> > institute this policy against the dogmatic naysayers was a look at the
> history
> > of racing in the Pacific Northwest, and we clearly showed that this
> practice
> > had been going on for years "in the era" i.e. at the SeaFair races. It
> has
> > now become accepted policy and no one questions it. As for your first
> point,
> > SOVREN unlike many other vintage racing clubs groups their cars by age and
> > engine size as opposed to lap times or speed potential so we do have
> fairly
> > big speed disparities in many of our groups. I totally agree that the
> danger
> > of speed differentials or rapid closing speeds is the element of surprise.
> > When the slow cars are cognizant that they are running with fast cars and
> are
> > watching their mirrors there is less chance of surprise, and when the fast
> > cars drive responsibly by passing in "the usual places" and don't do bonzi
> > (s?) late breaking maneuvers, overtaking the slower cars line at the last
> > minute, then there is less chance of surprising (scaring) the drivers of
> the
> > slower cars. I always tell people that what we do is Gentlemanly Racing
> for
> > the "love of the sport." (I don't want to rehash that Corinthian thread
> of
> > last year again!) A Gentleman is courteous and doesn't want to have fun
> at
> > the expense of someone else. (Of course that doesn't mean you can't whup
> 'em
> > "fair and square.")
> > Dick Buckingham, Jr.
> > Race Chairman -- SOVREN
> > Past President -- VMC
> >
> > Derek Harling wrote:
> >
> > > Someone recently wrote:
> > >
> > > > With lower speed differentials, you lessen the likelihood of
> > > > serious incidents.
> > >
> > > . . . . and if you don't take your car on the track you lessen it even
> > > more.
> > >
> > > Seriously - if there are two racing "truths" that I think are far too
> > > frequently believed they are
> > > - big speed differentials are dangerous - and -
> > > - mixing closed wheel and open wheel is dangerous.
> > >
> > > Bunk. Both.
> > >
> > > Big speed differentials are only dangerous if they surprise anyone. Use
> > > your eyes, your mirrors and your brain and you won't be surprised.
> > > Obviously that applies to both overtaker and overtakee. We have
> mirrors -
> > > use 'em. If you don't know what is going on all around you at all
> times -
> > > you shouldn't be out there. I still shudder at the comment heard many
> years
> > > ago while walking away from a drivers meeting - "I don't have time to
> look
> > > in my mirrors when I'm out there".
> > >
> > > Open wheel and closed wheel - dangerous? - why? Not as dangerous as
> mixing
> > > open wheel and open wheel.
> > >
> > > If you believe either of the above "truths" you're not thinking
> straight -
> > > please don't race with me.
> > >
> > > Derek
> >
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