Maybe for your idea to work you need SCTA Bonneville records
and SCTA national or international records. So you might
have the Bonneville record that is at one speed and the
national or SCTA international record that is at another..
The International record will never be less than than the
record set at any individual place. Then someone can set an
SCTA International record with out trashing the Lakes
records or the B'ville records or the Maxton records.. The
international ones will be just the best speed set on any
course with an SCTA legal car.. Might be the easiest thing
to do and very easy to implement. Just take all the records
set with an SCTA legal car no matter where it was set and
the fastest car has the record. The Bonneville record will
still be the record for endurance at speed and the others
might be for a sprint speed for a short distance, but they
really don't get in each others way as long as everyone
agrees they are for a peak speed as opposed to an average
speed over a fixed distance. for example a racer in Maxton
might set the International record for SCTA and the Maxton
record at the same time but it does not affect anything at
the Lakes, Maxton or Bonneville. By the same token one might
construe a top fuel car to be a A/BFL ( am not sure of this
but am using it as an example of what might be a legit deal)
so the international record for a A/BFL might be 330 set at
Gainsville. yet the Bonneville record is 322 and the El
Mirage record is 288. Does this make sense? It would just be
a simple database job of looking up the fastest speed for a
class car regardless of venue. It would also unify all the
racing records so no matter where you raced your car or bike
you could go for an SCTA International record. Bonneville,
Australia Maxton, Europe, whatever. The way to keep it all
legit is to have the inspectors and timers approved by SCTA.
They might be required to work at a couple of SCTA events
first or to be known competent people.
There are 2 reasons I personally like this idea. The first
is it will bring racers together rather than have a bunch of
different groups, Bonneville, Maxton, El Mirage, Muroc, Lake
Gardnier.... second it would elevate the status of SCTA in a
world wide racing body without really creating any more work
for the already overworked SCTA voluteers. This would in
effect make the SCTA records more valuable than they already
are.
How about that for a possitive non controversial idea from
the guy that brought you 300 e-mails about rotary
engines..LOL Or is it controversial???
Dave Dahlgren
Keith Turk wrote:
>
> Okay Jon.... Relax and think a bit here.... don't jump to the same
> conclusions I jumped to.... I agreed with you up front.... but then Logic
> Prevailed... or at least that is my opinion... and YES I ASSUME lot's of
> things....
>
> Here is the Truth as I know it with my car and ONLY my car... I run 15-18%
> faster at Bonneville then I do at Maxton. That gives a guy running
> Bonneville a 15% minimum advantage over me at Maxton.... Now if you do the
> same thing for Cars at El Mirage then I think you can come to the same
> conclusion that these Venues are not as Fast as Bonneville.... Let enough of
> us go to Lake Gairdner and I think your going to find there is a Big
> advantage to running there with a 5 mile course at Virtual Sea level....
>
> So what if you have to do it twice.... you have 5 times the room and less
> traction at a Higher Altitude and it's Proven to be a Faster course then all
> the others so far.... ( if the salt continues to improve it will be even
> better still )
>
> My Point is if someone beats the Bonneville record somewhere else in a Legal
> class car..... that person should hold the International record for that
> class.... It's not going to change the Bonneville record.... only the Level
> one has to go to at Bonneville to set the INTERNATIONAL record for that type
> of car.... Otherwise he would be setting a National record at Bonneville....
> ( it would still qualify as a 2 club record as you set a record at
> Bonneville over Two Bills in my case ...( BIG HOPE HERE))
>
> That is the logic that I came down to.... Problem with making them
> consecutive is Time limitations for El Mirage and Muroc... they don't have
> adequate track surface and area to do back to back record runs....
>
> Keith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Amo" <webmaster@landracing.com>
> To: "Keith Turk" <kturk@ala.net>
> Cc: "Joe Amo" <jkamo@rapidnet.com>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: International Records
>
> > Keith List,
> >
> > But the one thing all records at Bonneville and FIA records have that make
> them
> > more valuable and recognizable is the average of two speeds over the same
> real
> > estate. Not just one run with a trap speeds. That has always been the
> glory of
> > land speed racing, that not only did you only do it once, but twice, over
> the
> > same real estate but that also shows durability with a motor thats an
> important
> > factor, some can say they once did it, but bonneville records and FIA
> records
> > show they did it twice within an allotted time period.
> >
> > Jonathan Amo
> > www.landracing.com
> >
> > Jonathan Amo
> > www.landracing.com
> >
> > Keith Turk wrote:
> >
> > > Okay Joe.... lets take that as an example then.... You say there is a
> > > difference between say... Maxton and Bonneville.... and I happen to
> > > agree.... at Bonneville you have 4 miles to get up to speed.... where is
> the
> > > challange compared to ONE mile and a 132' trap.... or at El Mirage on
> Dirt
> > > at 1.3 miles? or Muroc on Talcum Powder at 1.5 miles and a One way
> average
> > > as the record.... Personally I think the short courses are severaly
> > > disadvantaged over the Long Course at Bville.... shoot even the Short
> course
> > > is better.....
> > >
> > > Why not?
> > >
> > > Keith
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joe Amo" <jkamo@rapidnet.com>
> > > To: "Keith Turk" <kturk@ala.net>
> > > Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:30 PM
> > > Subject: Re: International Records
> > >
> > > > Keith, lets at least compare One miles average speeds to One mile
> average
> > > > speeds, I definately dont try and compare what the magazines run at
> the
> > > end of a
> > > > straightaway with a radar gun to maintaining the speed for a minimum
> of a
> > > mile
> > > > speed trap, in that case we could just take NHRA trap speeds, I am not
> > > into
> > > > comparing a 60 ft speed trap to a 5280 ft speed trap
> > > >
> > > > Joe :)
> > > >
> > > > Keith Turk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A couple of us have been bantering about the Idea of what constitues
> an
> > > > > International record... ( World record )
> > > > >
> > > > > When you can open up your mind a bit .... it really helps you gain
> some
> > > > > perspective on what is going on the world of Land Speed Racing...
> Let
> > > me
> > > > > give you a couple of generally accepted statements... and we can
> banter
> > > this
> > > > > subject around again.... it's been fun for me as I really had to
> admit
> > > that
> > > > > Maybe I do care how a record is thought of LONG TERM....
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. The SCTA currently is the oldest established authority here in
> > > America
> > > > > for LSR... we view the rules and procedures as Ways of catagorizing
> cars
> > > and
> > > > > classes for the Most Part.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The FIA is recognized as the Authority for establishing an
> > > International
> > > > > Record in a Given Class by thier Rules... ( very liberal Rules...
> Very
> > > Few
> > > > > Classes )
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. We also have EVENT records for Places like El Mirage and
> Muroc... as
> > > > > well as Maxton.... and Don't forget the Dry Lakes racers in
> > > Austraila....who
> > > > > operate under SCTA rules.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets all agree that for the Most Part the fastest Place to run so
> far
> > > has
> > > > > been Bonneville.... with the notable exception of the Jet cars at
> Black
> > > rock
> > > > > .... But for us.... most of the records have been established under
> > > SCTA
> > > > > rules at Bonneville..... There are exceptions to that and it is in
> these
> > > > > that I find a place for something New.... Lets look at Tim Schoeny
> and
> > > his
> > > > > Honda... at Maxton... were he Broke the Record and Ran over the
> > > Bonneville
> > > > > speed.... That record in my opinion is an international Record....
> even
> > > > > thou it was set at Maxton. If he had done the same thing at El
> Mirage I
> > > > > would consider it a world record as well..... Think about John
> Rains
> > > times
> > > > > at El Mirage.... if he hadn't run the car at Bonneville he would
> have
> > > been
> > > > > Well over the Old Bville records.... those in my opinion would be
> > > > > international records....
> > > > >
> > > > > I think eventually we will be saying the same things about Lake
> > > Gairdner....
> > > > >
> > > > > My Point is that if you want the International Record then you need
> to
> > > run
> > > > > where your best afforded that opportunity and it needs to be
> sanctioned
> > > by
> > > > > an established Body.... Is that authority the SCTA? what do you
> guys
> > > think?
> > > > >
> > > > > Keith ( it's a Big Pot and needs Stiring...)
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