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CORRECTION: Hank is correct in that ethanol isn't necessarily used to
boost octane in pump gas--my assumption was incorrect--it's only added
because of the federal mandate. It can raise octane, though the effect
is probably minimal (the Penn State article didn't give the blend ratio,
but 102 over 100 isn't much regardless). You can refine 100-octane gas
from crude, but it would probably cost $10/gallon or more; and running
E85 allows compression ratios to be raised for better efficiency and
performance. That's why TEL was developed: to cheaply increase fuel
detonation resistance while simultaneously poisoning every living thing
on the planet.
In digging further, I came across this, which pretty much acknowledges
what a lot of us suspected: ethanol in gas causes vapor lock, and not
just in our Healeys. Also surprising to me, as ethanol has a lower vapor
pressure than gasoline--I'd assumed the opposite--but blending them
increases vapor pressure.
"... Gasoline vapor lock causes engines to stall, mostly when the car is
in traffic and temperature is rising high. Similarly when a car is
parked for a short period of time the heated motor won´t start. The
higher the temperature, the higher the altitude, the more likely it is
that Gasoline vapors build a vapor lock, preventing the fuel in the line
from moving to the engine."
https://www.grabner-instruments.com/-/media/ametekgrabnerinstruments/files/pdfs/application--vapor-pressure--vl-ratio-of-gasolineethanol-blends.pdf?la=en&revision=00f78dc8-029e-4481-ba85-e640bdc7e338
Note there is some effort to change all gas to 93-octane only, which
would accommodate all engines and simplify the refining and delivery
process. We can hope, I guess.
Bob
On 9/2/2024 10:32 AM, Bob Spidell via Healeys wrote:
> "Ethanol boosts the octane number of fuel, which helps prevent
> pre-ignition knock. Incidentally, the octane rating system for fuels
> was originally developed by Penn State chemist Russell Marker in the
> 1920s. The octane rating (Anti-Knock Index, AKI) of normal unleaded
> gasoline in the United States is 87. The octane rating of pure ethanol
> is 100. What's interesting is that when ethanol is blended with
> gasoline, it performs as if its octane rating is 112, making ethanol a
> very effective octane booster when used in gasoline. High octane is
> one reason why NASCAR uses ethanol for their high-compression racing
> engines. Engines that are designed and optimized for ethanol fuel have
> the potential to run at higher efficiencies than engines designed for
> and using gasoline."
>
> https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain
>
> On 9/2/2024 10:19 AM, Hank Leach wrote:
>> Ethanol will not raise the octane level of fuel-only the "tanes"
>> shown on the chart affect boost and the higher the tane the more
>> expensive the fuel.
>> If you procure fuel from an airport spout for road use there is a
>> hefty fine (about $50K I think) and maybe jail time, so they won't
>> sell you any. If clear gas (no eth) is not available you are stuck
>> with ethanol. Hank
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "Bob Spidell via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Reply-To: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
>> To: <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: September 2, 2024 at 10:02 AM PDT
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] gas/alcohol
>> Living in California, I have been running 'gasahol' in all my cars
>> longer than some. Best we can usually get is 91-octane; I was able to
>> buy higher-octane--93 and 100--fuel at times but, guess what: the
>> octane was boosted with ethanol (added water to some and measured
>> before and after; don't recall the exact mix but IIRC I figured it
>> was 10% ethanol; standard from the pump seems to be about 8%).
>>
>> I have about 140K miles on my BJ8 running mostly 91-octane gasahol,
>> and there have been no negative effects save some 'vapor lock*' on
>> starting when hot. I replaced the hard line to carburettor flex line
>> that had been on the car for a couple decades and, except for it
>> being a little stiff there was no visible degradation. About 8 years
>> ago I put a new carb jet in pure/denatured ethanol and there is also
>> no visible degradation. Rubber components sold since the introduction
>> of gasahol are impervious to the stuff. Theoretically, due to its
>> oxygen content gasahol could cause an engine to run a little lean,
>> and at least one knowledgeable person recommends changing to rich
>> carb needles, but both my cars have long since been tuned to run on
>> it with std. needles. The BJ8 was rebuilt to standard 9.1:1
>> compression ratio, the BN2 is a 100M and has the 'high compression'
>> 8.7:1 pistons. I've been told Healeys will run fine on 91 up to about
>> 11:1 compression, depending on the cam and timing.
>>
>> Good luck trying to 'steal' from an airport--when I owned airplanes I
>> would occasionally get some--but the fuel providers aren't likely to
>> be enthusiastic about selling it to you. Technically, you would owe
>> 'road tax,' and the stuff is full of TEL and highly toxic (don't
>> breathe any of it and don't let it get on your skin).
>>
>> * not technically 'vapor lock,' but the alcohol vaporizes and
>> cavitates the fuel next to the exhaust manifold, causing some
>> stumbling for a mile or so.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On 9/2/2024 7:45 AM, carl and gerry rubino via Healeys wrote:
>>
>> A message from Canada. For the last 30 years I have been running
>> my 100/6 on 93 gas with no alcohol.
>> In its infinite wisdom our government is going to legislate
>> alcohol in all grades of gas.
>> Other than stealing gas from an airport any recommendations to
>> deal with this?
>>
>
>
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CORRECTION: Hank is correct in that ethanol isn't necessarily used
to boost octane in pump gas--my assumption was incorrect--it's only
added because of the federal mandate. It can raise octane, though
the effect is probably minimal (the Penn State article didn't give
the blend ratio, but 102 over 100 isn't much regardless). You can
refine 100-octane gas from crude, but it would probably cost
$10/gallon or more; and running E85 allows compression ratios to be
raised for better efficiency and performance. That's why TEL was
developed: to cheaply increase fuel detonation resistance while
simultaneously poisoning every living thing on the planet.<br>
<br>
In digging further, I came across this, which pretty much
acknowledges what a lot of us suspected: ethanol in gas causes vapor
lock, and not just in our Healeys. Also surprising to me, as ethanol
has a lower vapor pressure than gasoline--I'd assumed the
opposite--but blending them increases vapor pressure.<br>
<br>
"... Gasoline vapor lock causes engines to stall, mostly when the
car is in traffic and temperature is rising high. Similarly when a
car is parked for a short period of time the heated motor won´t
start. The higher the temperature, the higher the altitude, the more
likely it is that Gasoline vapors build a vapor lock, preventing the
fuel in the line from moving to the engine."<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.grabner-instruments.com/-/media/ametekgrabnerinstruments/files/pdfs/application--vapor-pressure--vl-ratio-of-gasolineethanol-blends.pdf?la=en&revision=00f78dc8-029e-4481-ba85-e640bdc7e338";>https://www.grabner-instruments.com/-/media/ametekgrabnerinstruments/files/pdfs/application--vapor-pressure--vl-ratio-of-gasolineethanol-blends.pdf?la=en&revision=00f78dc8-029e-4481-ba85-e640bdc7e338</a><br>
<br>
Note there is some effort to change all gas to 93-octane only, which
would accommodate all engines and simplify the refining and delivery
process. We can hope, I guess.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/2024 10:32 AM, Bob Spidell via
Healeys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9b1b9045-3efa-4ed4-a300-6c39167abad9@comcast.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
"Ethanol boosts the octane number of fuel, which helps prevent
pre-ignition knock. Incidentally, the octane rating system for
fuels was originally developed by Penn State chemist Russell
Marker in the 1920s. The octane rating (Anti-Knock Index, AKI) of
normal unleaded gasoline in the United States is 87. The octane
rating of pure ethanol is 100. What's interesting is that when
ethanol is blended with gasoline, it performs as if its octane
rating is 112, making ethanol a very effective octane booster when
used in gasoline. High octane is one reason why NASCAR uses
ethanol for their high-compression racing engines. Engines that
are designed and optimized for ethanol fuel have the potential to
run at higher efficiencies than engines designed for and using
gasoline."<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain";
moz-do-not-send="true">https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain</a><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/2024 10:19 AM, Hank Leach
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:45f8343f-8584-9915-1bea-9b5fb0c78ce3@charter.net">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>Ethanol will not raise the octane level of fuel-only the
"tanes" shown on the chart affect boost and the higher the
tane the more expensive the fuel.</div>
<div>If you procure fuel from an airport spout for road use
there is a hefty fine (about $50K I think) and maybe jail
time, so they won't sell you any. If clear gas (no eth) is
not available you are stuck with ethanol. Hank</div>
<div><br>
-------------------- <br>
<br>
From: "Bob Spidell via Healeys" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"><healeys@autox.team.net></a>
<br>
Reply-To: "Bob Spidell" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"><bspidell@comcast.net></a>
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"><healeys@autox.team.net></a>
<br>
Sent: September 2, 2024 at 10:02 AM PDT <br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] gas/alcohol <br>
Living in California, I have been running 'gasahol' in all my
cars longer than some. Best we can usually get is 91-octane; I
was able to buy higher-octane--93 and 100--fuel at times but,
guess what: the octane was boosted with ethanol (added water
to some and measured before and after; don't recall the exact
mix but IIRC I figured it was 10% ethanol; standard from the
pump seems to be about 8%).<br>
<br>
I have about 140K miles on my BJ8 running mostly 91-octane
gasahol, and there have been no negative effects save some
'vapor lock*' on starting when hot. I replaced the hard line
to carburettor flex line that had been on the car for a couple
decades and, except for it being a little stiff there was no
visible degradation. About 8 years ago I put a new carb jet in
pure/denatured ethanol and there is also no visible
degradation. Rubber components sold since the introduction of
gasahol are impervious to the stuff. Theoretically, due to its
oxygen content gasahol could cause an engine to run a little
lean, and at least one knowledgeable person recommends
changing to rich carb needles, but both my cars have long
since been tuned to run on it with std. needles. The BJ8 was
rebuilt to standard 9.1:1 compression ratio, the BN2 is a 100M
and has the 'high compression' 8.7:1 pistons. I've been told
Healeys will run fine on 91 up to about 11:1 compression,
depending on the cam and timing. <br>
<br>
Good luck trying to 'steal' from an airport--when I owned
airplanes I would occasionally get some--but the fuel
providers aren't likely to be enthusiastic about selling it to
you. Technically, you would owe 'road tax,' and the stuff is
full of TEL and highly toxic (don't breathe any of it and
don't let it get on your skin). <br>
<br>
* not technically 'vapor lock,' but the alcohol vaporizes and
cavitates the fuel next to the exhaust manifold, causing some
stumbling for a mile or so.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/2024 7:45 AM, carl and gerry
rubino via Healeys wrote:</div>
<blockquote>A message from Canada. For the last 30 years I have
been running my 100/6 on 93 gas with no alcohol.
<div>In its infinite wisdom our government is going to
legislate alcohol in all grades of gas.</div>
<div>Other than stealing gas from an airport any
recommendations to deal with this?</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Â </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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