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re: "The whole front end is sat on those two Oilite bronze thrust washers."
Nope. Proof: I have placed my cars on jackstands under the rear springs
and front trunnions and R&R'd their shock absorbers several times
(Armstrong shocks are a PITA, but that's a different rant). Risky?
Maybe, but done right the risk is manageable. My BJ8 rode through a
Richter 5+ earthquake in this state in San Jose a few years ago;
obviously, a flat, rugged concrete surface is required (note messing
with massive springs under compression has risks as well). My BN2 is now
in this state while I wait for front shock rebuilds (though I have the
jackstands backed-up by a QuickJack under the chassis).
Though there is a very specific gap called-for for the top trunnion, the
only reason I can see is too small a gap might cause some
binding--leading to even more steering effort--and too large could
result in the shock and bushing/bearing taking a beating.
On 1/6/2021 7:39 AM, bluehealey@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi Fred.
>
> You are not the first person that I have encountered with this
> confusion. It is usually held by those that are very familiar with
> pre-war cars and beam axles. In those cars the steering/stub axle is
> captured between fixed top & bottom â??earsâ?? on the end of the beam.Â
> The weight of the car bears down through the top ear onto the swivel
> axle. All fairly obvious.
>
> In the case of our cars, with top and bottom wishbones, the weight of
> the car is carried on the spring and bottom wishbone. The wheel and
> stub axle is bearing upwards, LIFTING the car through the top trunnion
> using the kingpin as a pull-rod to the bottom wishbone and spring.
>
> The whole front end is sat on those two Oilite bronze thrust washers.
> Any reduction in friction here pays dividends â?? especially in a
> 6-cylinder car with even more weight over the wheels.
>
> Maybe others can come up with a clearer explanation.
>
> Cheers.
>
> AlanB
>
> *From:*Fred Wescoe <fredwescoe@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 06 January 2021 15:14
> *To:* Bluehealey <bluehealey@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Team.net <lawrence.swift@gmail.com>; Ahealey help
> <healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] BN2 Caster Angle
>
> Listers,
>
> I have looked at these top trunnion bearing kits over the years and
> considered installing them. However, I simply cannot get my head
> wrapped around why replacing bearings at the top of the kingpin would
> reduce the weight of the car and improve steering. It seems to me
> that all the weight of the car is pressed against the bottom of the
> kingpin. To me, it seems replacing the top bearing would have no
> effect on the steering effort. Can someone explain in simple language
> why this kit would work?
>
> Thanks, mystified,
>
> Fred
>
> 66 BJ8
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 9:49 AM Bluehealey <bluehealey@gmail.com
>
> These are the ones.
>
>
> https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-healey/big-healey/suspension-front/top-trunnion-bearing-kit-pair.aspx
>
> <https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-healey/big-healey/suspension-front/top-trunnion-bearing-kit-pair.aspx>
>
> Well worth doing.
>
> The other often overlooked source of heavy steering is the
> Steering Idler. It is rarely lubricated, has no real reservoir for
> oil, and a poor seal at the bottom. I suggest releasing the ball
> joints that connect to the drop arm to check it for stiffness.
> Complete removal of the idler isnâ??t a difficult job and is the
> best way to clean and lubricate.
>
> The caster is pretty good on these cars (the initial design was
> good). Camber could go from positive to negative to be more
> compatible with radial tyres. Also check and minimise toe-in. This
> has a radical impact on steering feel when wrong (in either
> direction).
>
> If after all that you still have problems, then go for the caster
> changes you have in mind and tell us about your findings. The Team
> may learn something.
>
> The only other aspect that seems to vary from car to car is bump
> steer. Some can be horrible on fast bumpies and others are on
> rails. Iâ??ve never seen a decent treatise on dealing with this on
> our Big Healeys.
> Have fun.
>
> Alan - from my iPad
>
>
>
> On 6 Jan 2021, at 13:35, Team.net <lawrence.swift@gmail.com
>
> When I rebuilt the front end on my BT7, I had the trust
> bearings at the top of the kingpin replaced with bearings -
> made a huge difference in the ease of steering.
>
>
> On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Bob Spidell
>
> re: "The other two are factory fixed and too dangerous to
> play with or maintain...even if Kilmartin makes the parts"
>
> How so?
>
> On 1/4/2021 9:40 PM, gradea1@charter.net
>
> I'm with the philosophy "set the toe and let 'er blow"
> The 1/16-1/8" toe-in is most important for proper tire
> wear. The other two are factory fixed and too
> dangerous to play with or maintain...even if Kilmartin
> makes the parts. Hank
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
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re: "<span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The whole front end is
sat on those two Oilite bronze thrust washers."<br>
<br>
Nope. Proof: I have placed my cars on jackstands under the rear
springs and front trunnions and R&R'd their shock absorbers
several times (Armstrong shocks are a PITA, but that's a different
rant). Risky? Maybe, but done right the risk is manageable. My BJ8
rode through a Richter 5+ earthquake in this state in San Jose a
few years ago; obviously, a flat, rugged concrete surface is
required (note messing with massive springs under compression has
risks as well). My BN2 is now in this state while I wait for front
shock rebuilds (though I have the jackstands backed-up by a
QuickJack under the chassis).<br>
<br>
Though there is a very specific gap called-for for the top
trunnion, the only reason I can see is too small a gap might cause
some binding--leading to even more steering effort--and too large
could result in the shock and bushing/bearing taking a beating.<br>
<br>
</span><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2021 7:39 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:bluehealey@gmail.com";>bluehealey@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:033d01d6e442$1e630a70$5b291f50$@gmail.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi
Fred.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You
are not the first person that I have encountered with this
confusion. It is usually held by those that are very
familiar with pre-war cars and beam axles. In those cars the
steering/stub axle is captured between fixed top &
bottom â??earsâ?? on the end of the beam. The weight of the car
bears down through the top ear onto the swivel axle. All
fairly obvious.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In
the case of our cars, with top and bottom wishbones, the
weight of the car is carried on the spring and bottom
wishbone. The wheel and stub axle is bearing upwards,
LIFTING the car through the top trunnion using the kingpin
as a pull-rod to the bottom wishbone and
spring.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
whole front end is sat on those two Oilite bronze thrust
washers. Any reduction in friction here pays dividends â??
especially in a 6-cylinder car with even more weight over
the wheels.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Maybe
others can come up with a clearer explanation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">AlanB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><img
style="width:2.3125in;height:.75in" id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.6370CA1F.5E29D496@comcast.net" class=""
width="222" height="72"></span><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Fred Wescoe <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:fredwescoe@gmail.com";><fredwescoe@gmail.com></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2021 15:14<br>
<b>To:</b> Bluehealey <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:bluehealey@gmail.com";><bluehealey@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Team.net <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:lawrence.swift@gmail.com";><lawrence.swift@gmail.com></a>;
Ahealey help <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";><healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] BN2 Caster
Angle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Listers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have looked at these top trunnion
bearing kits over the years and considered installing
them. However, I simply cannot get my head wrapped around
why replacing bearings at the top of the kingpin would
reduce the weight of the car and improve steering. It
seems to me that all the weight of the car is pressed
against the bottom of the kingpin. To me, it seems
replacing the top bearing would have no effect on the
steering effort. Can someone explain in simple language
why this kit would work?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, mystified,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fred<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">66 BJ8<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 9:49 AM
Bluehealey <<a href="mailto:bluehealey@gmail.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">bluehealey@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">These are the ones.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-healey/big-healey/suspension-front/top-trunnion-bearing-kit-pair.aspx";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ahspares.co.uk/austin-healey/big-healey/suspension-front/top-trunnion-bearing-kit-pair.aspx</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well worth doing.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The other often overlooked
source of heavy steering is the Steering Idler. It
is rarely lubricated, has no real reservoir for
oil, and a poor seal at the bottom. I suggest
releasing the ball joints that connect to the drop
arm to check it for stiffness. Complete removal of
the idler isnâ??t a difficult job and is the best
way to clean and lubricate.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The caster is pretty good on
these cars (the initial design was good). Camber
could go from positive to negative to be more
compatible with radial tyres. Also check and
minimise toe-in. This has a radical impact on
steering feel when wrong (in either
direction).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If after all that you still
have problems, then go for the caster changes you
have in mind and tell us about your findings. The
Team may learn something.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The only other aspect that
seems to vary from car to car is bump steer. Some
can be horrible on fast bumpies and others are on
rails. Iâ??ve never seen a decent treatise on
dealing with this on our Big Healeys.<br>
Have fun.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Alan - from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 6 Jan 2021, at
13:35, Team.net <<a
href="mailto:lawrence.swift@gmail.com";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">lawrence.swift@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">When I rebuilt the front
end on my BT7, I had the trust bearings at the
top of the kingpin replaced with bearings -
made a huge difference in the ease of
steering.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:36
AM, Bob Spidell <<a
href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">re: "The other two are
factory fixed and too dangerous to play with
or maintain...even if Kilmartin makes the
parts"<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">How so?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/4/2021 9:40 PM, <a
href="mailto:gradea1@charter.net";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gradea1@charter.net</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm with the philosophy
"set the toe and let 'er blow" The
1/16-1/8" toe-in is most important for
proper tire wear. The other two are
factory fixed and too dangerous to play
with or maintain...even if Kilmartin makes
the parts. Hank<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Support Team.Net <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
target="_blank"
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</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Suggested annual donation
 $12.75<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Archive: <a
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
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<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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Suggested annual donation  $12.75<br>
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target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
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target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
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href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys";
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
Support Team.Net <a
href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Suggested annual donation $12.75<br>
<br>
Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a>
<a href="http://autox.team.net/archive"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
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Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient";
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif";
alt="" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="46" height="29"></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
#41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient";
target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.avast.com</a> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
height="1" moz-do-not-send="true"> </a></div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre"
wrap="">_______________________________________________
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";>Healeys@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys";>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
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</html>
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--===============0636628081346250037==
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