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The industrial revolution provided a lot of opportunity to develop new
ideas and systems. The best ones prevailed. Many of these items were
crafted snd as such logos were used to identify manufacturers
Ira Erbs
Portland, OR
typos and artifacts are the fault of my phone
On Thu, Nov 22, 2018, 9:01 PM Mirek Sharp <m.g.sharp@sympatico.ca wrote:
> Kees, I have a different perspective. I revel in the diversity of
> fasteners and thread systems that the British have produced, many
> originally designed for a different application, which may or may not hav=
e
> been necessary, but I applaud those engineers for thinking out of the box=
.
> The metric system is, well, =E2=80=9Cboring=E2=80=9D comes to mind. I hav=
e enjoyed this
> thread as I have over the years marvelled not only at the diversity of
> thread systems but the diversity of manufacturers, and find it quaint but
> historically stimulating that they ornamented the bolt heads with their
> corporate names and symbols. It creates a picture the many little, and n=
ot
> so little, companies in the Midlands churning out fasteners (and a lot of
> the other sundry fittings on our cars) and driving (literally) the local
> and national economy. (BTW, no need to note =E2=80=9Cexcept the British=
=E2=80=9D, we never
> considered ourselves part of Europe =E2=80=93 it reminds me of an English=
phrase,
> wrongly attributed to a headline in the Times, =E2=80=9CFog over channel,=
Continent
> cut off=E2=80=9D J)
>
>
>
> Yours in mirth, Mirek
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Ke=
es
> Oudesluijs
> *Sent:* November-22-18 4:59 AM
> *To:* healeys@autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] bolt identification
>
>
>
> Curtis, that is a very enlightening article. For us Europeans (exept the
> British) the UK denominations of material strength (and not to mention th=
e
> total incomprehensible collection of all different sorts of threads in th=
e
> UK) are an absolute nightmare. I also never knew the meaning of the lines
> on the heads of SEA/UNF/UNC bolts.
>
> Concerning the metric bolts, before ca. 1970 the kgf/mm=C2=B2 (kilogram f=
orce
> per square mm) was used, equal to 9,8N/mm=C2=B2, in practice 10N/mm=C2=B2=
. All my
> study books used the kgf/mm=C2=B2!
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
> Op 22-11-2018 om 09:32 schreef Curtis Arndt:
>
> John,
>
>
>
> Like most British bolts of the earlier part of last century, the Vendor
> name was printed on the bolt, e.g. Rubery-Owen or RO, Bees, Wiley, Woden
> and about 30+ others. So to answer your question... BEES was the vendor.
> The bolt you refer to with an actual Bee on the head is a very early bolt=
,
> and is one that I have in my collection. It most likely is a Whitworth
> bolt, either BSF (fine) or BSW (coarse).
>
>
>
> The "Rubery Owen B28-35" that you refer to is a "Mild" steel bolt,
> similar to an SAE Grade "2" US bolt. The strength rating is "B" and the
> measurement is 28 to 35 tons per square inch or tons tensile. The range
> refers to "yield" strength and "ultimate tensile" strength as described i=
n
> my attached article. FYI, multiply 28 or 35 times a ton and you'll get t=
he
> strength in pounds, or psi... HOWEVER we're talking British here, so it'=
s
> not 2,000 pounds as in a US ton but 2,240 pounds as in a British Long Ton=
!
>
>
>
> Along with the vendor name was the strength rating expressed as a letter
> which for *hi tensile* bolts was D, E, F and G prior to 1950 and changed
> to R, S, T, U, V, W, and X after 1950. I have included (attached) my
> draft on British Strength rating codes decoded which I hope to officially
> publish on my blog site once it's up and running.
>
>
>
> Also, the bolt heads were marked to differentiate Whitworth (BSW, BSF,
> etc...) from UNF and UNC once this new thread form system was phased in
> during the early 1950s. For bolts, that was a "circular" depression on t=
he
> head of the bolt which meant the bolt was a "Unified" versus a "Whitworth=
"
> thread form bolt.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps and email me directly if you have any further questions=
.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Curt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi John--
>
>
>
> Check this out:
>
>
>
>
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY=
/s1600/Bee:1.jpg
>
>
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to you and Cindi.
>
>
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:19 PM John Vrugtman <javrugtman@htcnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen
>
> Bees bolts seem to be very obscure, saw a picture of one, but no referenc=
e
> to the manufacturer
>
> On 11/21/2018 6:58 PM, warthodson@aol.com wrote:
>
> I was sorting thru a box of hardware & found two bolts that I cannot
> identify. They both are approx. 1/4" diameter. They both have the same
> thread per inch. According to my thread gage they are between 24 & 26 TPI=
.
> So call it 25 TPI. I do not have a metric thread gage to check them again=
st.
>
>
>
> One is marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head & measures about 5/8" long=
.
> The other is marked "BEES" & has a embossed emblem of a bee on the head &
> measures about 3/4" long. The lengths do not include the head, of course.
> No other markings on the heads.
>
> They will not accept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut or any metric nuts that I
> have.
>
>
>
> Can anyone ID these for me?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Hodson
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--0000000000002bafc8057b4df7d9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">The industrial revolution provided a lot of opportunity t=
o develop new ideas and systems. The best ones prevailed. Many of these ite=
ms were crafted snd as such logos were used to identify manufacturers=C2=A0=
<br><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Ira Erbs<br>Portland, OR<br=
>typos and artifacts are the fault of my phone</div></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov 22, 2018, 9:01 PM Mirek Sharp &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:m.g.sharp@sympatico.ca";>m.g.sharp@sympatico.ca</a> wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"E=
N-CA" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-5257663967710122516Wo=
rdSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Kees,=C2=
=A0 I have a different perspective. I revel in the diversity of fasteners a=
nd thread systems that the British have produced, many originally designed =
for a different application, which may or may not have been necessary, but =
I applaud those engineers for thinking out of the box.=C2=A0 The metric sys=
tem is, well, =E2=80=9Cboring=E2=80=9D comes to mind. I have enjoyed this t=
hread as I have over the years marvelled not only at the diversity of threa=
d systems but the diversity of manufacturers, and find it quaint but histor=
ically stimulating that they ornamented the bolt heads with their corporate=
names and symbols.=C2=A0 It creates a picture the many little, and not so =
little, companies in the Midlands churning out fasteners (and a lot of the =
other sundry fittings on our cars) and driving (literally) the local and na=
tional economy. =C2=A0(BTW, no need to note =E2=80=9Cexcept the British=E2=
=80=9D, we never considered ourselves part of Europe =E2=80=93 it reminds m=
e of an English phrase, wrongly attributed to a headline in the Times, =E2=
=80=9CFog over channel, Continent cut off=E2=80=9D </span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:windowtext">J</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:windowtext">)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:windowtext"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:windowtext">Yours in mirth,=C2=A0 Mirek<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1=
.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
windowtext"> Healeys [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>=
] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kees Oudesluijs<br><b>Sent:</b> November-22-18 4:59 A=
M<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"=
rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heal=
eys] bolt identification<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p>Curtis, that is a very enlightening art=
icle. For us Europeans (exept the British) the UK denominations of material=
strength (and not to mention the total incomprehensible collection of all =
different sorts of threads in the UK) are an absolute nightmare. I also nev=
er knew the meaning of the lines on the heads of SEA/UNF/UNC bolts.<u></u><=
u></u></p><p>Concerning the metric bolts, before ca. 1970 the kgf/mm=C2=B2 =
(kilogram force per square mm) was used, equal to 9,8N/mm=C2=B2, in practic=
e 10N/mm=C2=B2. All my study books used the kgf/mm=C2=B2!<u></u><u></u></p>=
<p>Kees Oudesluijs<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Op 22-11-20=
18 om 09:32 schreef Curtis Arndt:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=
=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">John,=
<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Like most British bolts of the earlier part o=
f last century, the Vendor name was printed on the bolt, e.g. Rubery-Owen o=
r RO, Bees, Wiley, Woden and about 30+ others.=C2=A0 So to answer your ques=
tion... BEES was the vendor.=C2=A0 The bolt you refer to with an actual Bee=
on the head is a very early bolt, and is one that I have in my collection.=
=C2=A0 It most likely is a Whitworth bolt, either BSF (fine) or BSW (coarse=
).<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:&q=
uot;Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0"Rubery Owen B28-35"=
;</span>=C2=A0that you refer to is a "Mild" steel bolt, similar t=
o an SAE Grade "2" US bolt.=C2=A0 The strength rating is "B&=
quot; and the measurement is 28 to 35 tons per square inch or tons tensile.=
=C2=A0 The range refers to "yield" strength and "ultimate te=
nsile" strength as described in my attached article.=C2=A0 FYI, multip=
ly 28 or 35 times a ton and you'll get the strength in pounds, or psi..=
. HOWEVER=C2=A0 we're talking British here, so it's not 2,000 pound=
s as in a US ton but 2,240 pounds as in a British Long Ton!<u></u><u></u></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">Along with the vendor name was the strength rating expre=
ssed as a letter which for <u>hi tensile</u> bolts was D, E, F and G prior =
to 1950 and changed to R, S, T,=C2=A0 U,=C2=A0 V,=C2=A0 W,=C2=A0 and X afte=
r 1950.=C2=A0 I have included (attached) my draft on British Strength ratin=
g codes decoded which I hope to officially publish on my blog site once it&=
#39;s up and running.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, the bolt head=
s were marked to differentiate Whitworth (BSW, BSF, etc...) from UNF and UN=
C once this new thread form system was phased in during the early 1950s.=C2=
=A0 For bolts, that was a "circular" depression on the head of th=
e bolt which meant the bolt was a "Unified" versus a "Whitwo=
rth" thread form bolt.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I hope this h=
elps and email me directly if you have any further questions.<u></u><u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p=
class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Curt<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed,=
Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt <<a href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>=
> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-=
left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin=
-right:0cm"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#333=
3ff">Hi John--<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#3333ff"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#3333ff">Check this out:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#3333ff=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"color:#3333ff"><a href=3D"http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLG=
j7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer">http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1=
--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#3333ff">Happy Thanksgiving to you and Cindi.</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#3333ff">Best--Michael =
Oritt</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 a=
t 10:19 PM John Vrugtman <<a href=3D"mailto:javrugtman@htcnet.org"; targe=
t=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">javrugtman@htcnet.org</a>> wrote:<u></u>=
<u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc=
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><a href=3D"https://en.=
wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https:=
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen</a><br><br>Bees bolts seem to be very o=
bscure, saw a picture of one, but no reference to the manufacturer=C2=A0 <u=
></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 11/21/2018 6:58 PM, <a href=
=3D"mailto:warthodson@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">warthod=
son@aol.com</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-t=
op:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I was =
sorting thru a box of hardware & found two bolts that I cannot identify=
. They both are approx. 1/4" diameter. They both have the same thread =
per inch. According to my thread gage they are between 24 & 26 TPI. So =
call it 25 TPI. I do not have a metric thread gage to check them against.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">One is=
marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head & measures about 5/8=
" long. The other is marked "BEES" & has a embossed embl=
em of a bee on the head & measures about 3/4" long. The lengths do=
not include the head, of course. No other markings on the heads.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">They will not a=
ccept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut or any metric nuts that I have.=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Can anyon=
e ID these for me?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-=
serif""><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans=
-serif"">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sa=
ns-serif"">Gary Hodson =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>Support T=
eam.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual don=
ation=C2=A0 $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail=
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