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Curtis, that is a very enlightening article. For us Europeans (exept the
British) the UK denominations of material strength (and not to mention
the total incomprehensible collection of all different sorts of threads
in the UK) are an absolute nightmare. I also never knew the meaning of
the lines on the heads of SEA/UNF/UNC bolts.
Concerning the metric bolts, before ca. 1970 the kgf/mm² (kilogram force
per square mm) was used, equal to 9,8N/mm², in practice 10N/mm². All my
study books used the kgf/mm²!
Kees Oudesluijs
Op 22-11-2018 om 09:32 schreef Curtis Arndt:
> John,
>
> Like most British bolts of the earlier part of last century, the
> Vendor name was printed on the bolt, e.g. Rubery-Owen or RO, Bees,
> Wiley, Woden and about 30+ others. So to answer your question... BEES
> was the vendor. The bolt you refer to with an actual Bee on the head
> is a very early bolt, and is one that I have in my collection. It
> most likely is a Whitworth bolt, either BSF (fine) or BSW (coarse).
>
> The "Rubery Owen B28-35"Â that you refer to is a "Mild" steel bolt,
> similar to an SAE Grade "2" US bolt. The strength rating is "B" and
> the measurement is 28 to 35 tons per square inch or tons tensile. The
> range refers to "yield" strength and "ultimate tensile" strength as
> described in my attached article. FYI, multiply 28 or 35 times a ton
> and you'll get the strength in pounds, or psi... HOWEVERÂ we're
> talking British here, so it's not 2,000 pounds as in a US ton but
> 2,240 pounds as in a British Long Ton!
>
> Along with the vendor name was the strength rating expressed as a
> letter which for _hi tensile_ bolts was D, E, F and G prior to 1950
> and changed to R, S, T, U, V, W, and X after 1950. I have included
> (attached) my draft on British Strength rating codes decoded which I
> hope to officially publish on my blog site once it's up and running.
>
> Also, the bolt heads were marked to differentiate Whitworth (BSW, BSF,
> etc...) from UNF and UNC once this new thread form system was phased
> in during the early 1950s. For bolts, that was a "circular"
> depression on the head of the bolt which meant the bolt was a
> "Unified" versus a "Whitworth" thread form bolt.
>
> I hope this helps and email me directly if you have any further questions.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Curt
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com
>
> Hi John--
>
> Check this out:
>
>
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to you and Cindi.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:19 PM John Vrugtman
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen
>
> Bees bolts seem to be very obscure, saw a picture of one, but
> no reference to the manufacturer
>
> On 11/21/2018 6:58 PM, warthodson@aol.com
>> I was sorting thru a box of hardware & found two bolts that I
>> cannot identify. They both are approx. 1/4" diameter. They
>> both have the same thread per inch. According to my thread
>> gage they are between 24 & 26 TPI. So call it 25 TPI. I do
>> not have a metric thread gage to check them against.
>>
>> One is marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head & measures
>> about 5/8" long. The other is marked "BEES" & has a embossed
>> emblem of a bee on the head & measures about 3/4" long. The
>> lengths do not include the head, of course. No other markings
>> on the heads.
>> They will not accept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut or any metric
>> nuts that I have.
>>
>> Can anyone ID these for me?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gary Hodson
>>
>>
>
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Curtis, that is a very enlightening article. For us Europeans
(exept the British) the UK denominations of material strength (and
not to mention the total incomprehensible collection of all
different sorts of threads in the UK) are an absolute nightmare. I
also never knew the meaning of the lines on the heads of
SEA/UNF/UNC bolts.</p>
<p>Concerning the metric bolts, before ca. 1970 the kgf/mm²
(kilogram force per square mm) was used, equal to 9,8N/mm², in
practice 10N/mm². All my study books used the kgf/mm²!</p>
<p>Kees Oudesluijs<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 22-11-2018 om 09:32 schreef Curtis
Arndt:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJKrNeT3dRerNOt34_phzhJUh9H_8QUz6-bYnf1gKaFhwF__Zg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">John,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Like most British bolts of the earlier part of last
century, the Vendor name was printed on the bolt, e.g.
Rubery-Owen or RO, Bees, Wiley, Woden and about 30+ others.Â
So to answer your question... BEES was the vendor. The bolt
you refer to with an actual Bee on the head is a very early
bolt, and is one that I have in my collection. It most likely
is a Whitworth bolt, either BSF (fine) or BSW (coarse).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The <span style="color:black;font-family:arial"> </span><span
style="color:black;font-family:arial">"Rubery Owen
B28-35"</span>Â that
you refer to is a "Mild" steel bolt, similar to an SAE Grade
"2" US bolt. The strength rating is "B" and the measurement
is 28 to 35 tons per square inch or tons tensile. The range
refers to "yield" strength and "ultimate tensile" strength as
described in my attached article. FYI, multiply 28 or 35
times a ton and you'll get the strength in pounds, or psi...
HOWEVERÂ we're talking British here, so it's not 2,000 pounds
as in a US ton but 2,240 pounds as in a British Long Ton!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Along with the vendor name was the strength rating
expressed as a letter which for <u>hi tensile</u> bolts was
D, E, F and G prior to 1950 and changed to R, S, T, U, V,Â
W, and X after 1950. I have included (attached) my draft on
British Strength rating codes decoded which I hope to
officially publish on my blog site once it's up and running.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, the bolt heads were marked to differentiate Whitworth
(BSW, BSF, etc...) from UNF and UNC once this new thread form
system was phased in during the early 1950s. For bolts, that
was a "circular" depression on the head of the bolt which
meant the bolt was a "Unified" versus a "Whitworth" thread
form bolt.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope this helps and email me directly if you have any
further questions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Curt</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt
<<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">Hi
John--</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">Check
this out:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font color="#3333ff"><a
href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg</a></font><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font color="#3333ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font color="#3333ff">Happy
Thanksgiving to you and Cindi.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font color="#3333ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font color="#3333ff">Best--Michael
Oritt</font></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:19 PM John
Vrugtman <<a href="mailto:javrugtman@htcnet.org";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">javrugtman@htcnet.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen</a><br>
<br>
Bees bolts seem to be very obscure, saw a picture of
one, but no reference to the manufacturer <br>
<br>
<div
class="m_-7474963336397339075m_-9095152134635478455moz-cite-prefix">On
11/21/2018 6:58 PM, <a
class="m_-7474963336397339075m_-9095152134635478455moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:warthodson@aol.com"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">warthodson@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> <font size="2" face="arial"
color="black">
<div>I was sorting thru a box of hardware &
found two bolts that I cannot identify. They both
are approx. 1/4" diameter. They both have the same
thread per inch. According to my thread gage they
are between 24 & 26 TPI. So call it 25 TPI. I
do not have a metric thread gage to check them
against.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One is marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head
& measures about 5/8" long. The other is
marked "BEES" & has a embossed emblem of a bee
on the head & measures about 3/4" long. The
lengths do not include the head, of course. No
other markings on the heads.</div>
<div>They will not accept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut
or any metric nuts that I have. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can anyone ID these for me?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Gary Hodson   </div>
</font> <br>
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![http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg"](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg"){kind=link}