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Hi Scott,=20
The 110=C2=B0 degrees is really the valve overlap, in crankshaft degrees, a=
s you understand it, but at the recommended operating valve lash, 0.016". C=
hecking at 0.050" would result in much lower overlap. Installed at 103=C2=
=B0(=3Dadvanced a bit) , inlet valve is opening 53=C2=B0 before TDC and exh=
aust valve is closing at 57=C2=B0 after TDC. But 110=C2=B0 is a lot of over=
lap :the BFE24 grind has 112=C2=B0 but most racecams are between 95 and 105=
=C2=B0 it seems. The cam in my engine is installed at 104=C2=B0, I'm thinki=
ng of trying to advance it to 100=C2=B0 ; then the inlet valve is closing e=
arlier. Now the engine has a REAL 210 hp, with the leaking valves and I'm j=
ust starting the testing on my engine dyno. People who are racing TR6 engin=
es are easily talking about 230 and 250hp but you never know what that mean=
s. But 210=C2=B0 is disappointing, it should go up, more so because the dis=
placement is 2720cc (evenly spaced bores of 78mm)=20
Marcel=20
Van: "Scott Janzen" <sjanzen@me.com>=20
Aan: "van mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>=20
Cc: "tr4racing" <tr4racing@googlemail.com>, "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Verzonden: Zaterdag 2 mei 2020 23:36:31=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Valve overlap and compression test=20
Maercel, I=E2=80=99m puzzled. Are you referring to the lobe separation angl=
e, or to the overlap between the intake valve opening before TDC and the ex=
haust valve closing after TDC on the same revolution? Unless I=E2=80=99m re=
ading them wrong, I=E2=80=99ve looked at some pretty radical cam specs and =
the opening/closing overlap does not approach 110 degrees, more like 50 deg=
rees on a really aggressive cam, but the lobe separation angle is about 104=
degrees on the cam I have in the car and 107 on the cam I=E2=80=99m puttin=
g in another engine.=20
On May 2, 2020, at 4:30 PM, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot < [ mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20
Hallo Chris,=20
of course the cylinderhead has to be repaired. I think the man who has put =
the big valves in it, has taken too much risks : the valve seats (the rings=
that are pressed into the cyl head) are small where they do meet, and mayb=
e the seats are distorted a bit because of this, but I don't know for sure,=
I will see when pulling the head. I know one cannot change the valve clear=
ance too much, but maybe 0.05mm more valve lash is ok and it will reduce th=
e valve overlap. I believe 110=C2=B0 overlap is a lot, even for a racecamsh=
aft. Any idea's someone about that? The compression test with increased val=
ve lash is much higher than with the recommended valve lash : I wonder if i=
t is making any sense at all to check the compression of a race engine with=
out increasing the valve lash : with the normal clearances, the inlet valve=
is closing when the piston has already travelled a lot upwards, hence the =
big difference between the compression test results with normal and with in=
creased valve lash. So I think, if you want to test the compression, you ha=
ve to increase the valve lash firstly(at least when the engine has a race c=
amshaft).=20
Marcel=20
Van: "fot" < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] >=20
Aan: "fot" < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] >=20
Verzonden: Zaterdag 2 mei 2020 21:29:59=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Valve overlap and compression test=20
Hello Marcel,=20
Your engine has leaking valves.=20
It won=E2=80=99t get better from changing measurement procedures.=20
Maybe the seat is rough, or the valves bent, or offset .=20
Something to make sure about.=20
Enlarging the valve leash could result in hammering everything dead in the =
valve train.=20
Cheers=20
Chris=20
Von: Fot < [ mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net | fot-bounces@autox.team.net=
] > Im Auftrag von van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot=20
Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Mai 2020 14:43=20
An: fot < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] >=20
Betreff: [Fot] Valve overlap and compression test=20
A leaking test on my TR6 engine is showing a leaking exhaust valve on cyl n=
o 1 (48% on the gauge of the device) and a leaking inlet valve on cyl no 2 =
(75%). Compression on cyl no1 is 9.5 bar and on cyl 2 it is 8 bar. The comp=
ression on the other cylinders is between 12 and 13.5 bar. This is with a r=
ace cam with a valve overlap of 110=C2=B0 (320-F grind). Because of the hig=
h overlap, the piston has risen a lot before the inlet valve is closed, so =
I did the compression test again, but with a valve lash of 2.5mm/0.1" : com=
pression went from 9.5 bar to 14.5 on cyl no 1 and from 8 bar to 15 on cyl =
no 2. With this valve lash, the compression on the other cylinders went up =
to 16 - 18.5 bar. Of course, when the engine is running at high rpm, a lot =
of valve overlap is necessary for best cylinder filling, but I wonder if 11=
0=C2=B0 isn't too much?? The recommended valve lash is 0.40mm/0.016" when t=
he rocker ratio is 1.45(0.43mm/ with my 1.55 roller rockers). Would it be r=
isky to set the valve lash at some 0.05mm/0.002" higher?=20
PS : is it common practice to set the valve lash at a couple of mm to perfo=
rm a compression test, because it seems that the valve lash has a lot of in=
fluence on the result when testing a race camshaft?=20
Marcel=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
.marcel@telenet.be | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.=
marcel@telenet.be ]=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen@me.com ]=20
--=_f8fabb21-f257-4b21-94c1-c44dc8f067b9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Hi Scott,</div><div>The 110=C2=B0 =
degrees is really the valve overlap, in crankshaft degrees, as you understa=
nd it, but at the recommended operating valve lash, 0.016". Checking at 0.0=
50" would result in much lower overlap. Installed at 103=C2=B0(=3Dadvanced =
a bit) , inlet valve is opening 53=C2=B0 before TDC and exhaust valve is cl=
osing at 57=C2=B0 after TDC. But 110=C2=B0 is a lot of overlap :the B=
FE24 grind has 112=C2=B0 but most racecams are between 95 and 105=C2=B0 it =
seems. The cam in my engine is installed at 104=C2=B0, I'm thinking of tryi=
ng to advance it to 100=C2=B0 ; then the inlet valve is closing earlier. No=
w the engine has a REAL 210 hp, with the leaking valves and I'm just starti=
ng the testing on my engine dyno. People who are racing TR6 engines are eas=
ily talking about 230 and 250hp but you never know what that means. But 210=
=C2=B0 is disappointing, it should go up, more so because the displacement =
is 2720cc (evenly spaced bores of 78mm)</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></di=
v><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADER=
S__"><b>Van: </b>"Scott Janzen" <sjanzen@me.com><br><b>Aan: </b>"van =
mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be><br><b>Cc: </b>"tr4rac=
ing" <tr4racing@googlemail.com>, "fot" <fot@autox.team.net><br>=
<b>Verzonden: </b>Zaterdag 2 mei 2020 23:36:31<br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fo=
t] Valve overlap and compression test<br></div><div><br></div><div data-mar=
ker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">Maercel, I=E2=80=99m puzzled. Are you referring to =
the lobe separation angle, or to the overlap between the intake valve openi=
ng before TDC and the exhaust valve closing after TDC on the same revolutio=
n? Unless I=E2=80=99m reading them wrong, I=E2=80=99ve looked at some=
pretty radical cam specs and the opening/closing overlap does not approach=
110 degrees, more like 50 degrees on a really aggressive cam, but the lobe=
separation angle is about 104 degrees on the cam I have in the car and 107=
on the cam I=E2=80=99m putting in another engine.<br class=3D""><div><br c=
lass=3D""><div class=3D"">On May 2, 2020, at 4:30 PM, van.mulders.marcel---=
via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"nofollow noopener noreferrer">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br c=
lass=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"font-style=
:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-trans=
form:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-fam=
ily:'verdana' , 'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:10pt" class=3D=
""><div class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Hallo Chris,</div><div class=3D"">=
of course the cylinderhead has to be repaired. I think the man who has put =
the big valves in it, has taken too much risks : the valve seats (the rings=
that are pressed into the cyl head) are small where they do meet, and mayb=
e the seats are distorted a bit because of this, but I don't know for sure,=
I will see when pulling the head. I know one cannot change the valve=
clearance too much, but maybe 0.05mm more valve lash is ok and it will red=
uce the valve overlap. I believe 110=C2=B0 overlap is a lot, even for a rac=
ecamshaft. Any idea's someone about that? The compression test with increas=
ed valve lash is much higher than with the recommended valve lash : I wonde=
r if it is making any sense at all to check the compression of a race engin=
e without increasing the valve lash : with the normal clearances, the inlet=
valve is closing when the piston has already travelled a lot upwards=
, hence the big difference between the compression test results with normal=
and with increased valve lash. So I think, if you want to test the compres=
sion, you have to increase the valve lash firstly(at least when the engine =
has a race camshaft).</div><div class=3D"">Marcel</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><b class=3D"">=
Van:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"fot" <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Aan:<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"fot" <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferr=
er">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Verzonden:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Zaterdag 2 mei 2020 21:29:=
59<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Onderwerp:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce"> </span></b>Re: [Fot] Valve overlap and compression test<br class=
=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=
=3D"WordSection1"><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'cali=
bri' , sans-serif" class=3D""><span lang=3D"DE" class=3D"">Hello Marcel,</s=
pan></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:'calibri' , sans-serif"><span lang=3D"DE" class=3D""> </span></p>=
<div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif"=
class=3D"">Your engine has leaking valves.</div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D"">It won=E2=80=
=99t get better from changing measurement procedures.</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D"">Mayb=
e the seat is rough, or the valves bent, or offset .</div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D"">Somet=
hing to make sure about.</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm;fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif"> </p><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D"">Enla=
rging the valve leash could result in hammering everything dead in the valv=
e train.</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:'calibri' , sans-serif"> </p><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D"">Cheers</div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=
=3D"">Chris</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;=
font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif"> </p><div class=3D""><div style=3D=
"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb( 22=
5 , 225 , 225 );padding:3pt 0cm 0cm" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:0cm;fo=
nt-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D""><b class=3D""><=
span lang=3D"DE" class=3D"">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" class=3D""><sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:f=
ot-bounces@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noref=
errer">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>><span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce"> </span><b class=3D"">Im Auftrag von<span class=3D"Apple-converted=
-space"> </span></b>van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot<br class=3D""><b cla=
ss=3D"">Gesendet:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sam=
stag, 2. Mai 2020 14:43<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">An:</b><span class=3D"A=
pple-converted-space"> </span>fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team=
.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">fot@autox.team=
.net</a>><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Betreff:</b><span class=3D"Apple-c=
onverted-space"> </span>[Fot] Valve overlap and compression test</span=
></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11p=
t;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif"> </p><div class=3D""><div class=
=3D""><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-=
serif" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'verdana' , san=
s-serif" class=3D"">A leaking test on my TR6 engine is showing a leaking ex=
haust valve on cyl no 1 (48% on the gauge of the device) and a leaking inle=
t valve on cyl no 2 (75%). Compression on cyl no1 is 9.5 bar and on cyl 2 i=
t is 8 bar. The compression on the other cylinders is between 12 and 13.5 b=
ar. This is with a race cam with a valve overlap of 110=C2=B0 (320-F grind)=
. Because of the high overlap, the piston has risen a lot before the inlet =
valve is closed, so I did the compression test again, but with a valve lash=
of 2.5mm/0.1" : compression went from 9.5 bar to 14.5 on cyl no 1 and from=
8 bar to 15 on cyl no 2. With this valve lash, the compression on the othe=
r cylinders went up to 16 - 18.5 bar. Of course, when the engine is running=
at high rpm, a lot of valve overlap is necessary for best cylinder filling=
, but I wonder if 110=C2=B0 isn't too much?? The recommended valve lash is =
0.40mm/0.016" when the rocker ratio is 1.45(0.43mm/ with my 1.55 roller roc=
kers). Would it be risky to set the valve lash at some 0.05mm/0.002" higher=
?</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt=
;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:'verdana' , sans-serif" class=3D"">PS : is it common practic=
e to set the valve lash at a couple of mm to perform a compression test, be=
cause it seems that the valve lash has a lot of influence on the result whe=
n testing a race camshaft?</span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"=
margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri' , sans-serif" class=3D""><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'verdana' , sans-serif" class=3D"">=
Marcel</span></div></div></div></div><br class=3D"">_______________________=
________________________<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">fot@autox.team.net=
</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://www.fot-racing.=
com</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-=
space"> </span><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_=
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