Re: [Fot] Rear axle toe in

[Aaron Johnson via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>]

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Not sure the dynamics of a tr4 suspension but yes, I=E2=80=99m with others, s=
pitfire 1/8 total out in front and 1/8 total in at the rear.=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Brad Eells via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote=
:
>=20
> Interesting that when I inquired about rear toe for the Spitfire, one of o=
ur esteemed members suggested 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in as a critical setting.
>=20
> I had the race shop check it as I had done nothing more than disassembled r=
ebuilt and reassembled the rear suspension as I had found it.
>=20
> They found the setting at 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in. It had come off the track i=
n 1976 after a very successful SCCA career set that way.
>=20
> Good enough for me...
>=20
> Brad Eells
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>> On Jun 9, 2019, at 8:12 AM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wr=
ote:
>>=20
>> I read somewhere that the toe angle varies with the position of the trail=
ing arm through its travel.  If you do alignment at the static point, it is n=
ot where your trailing arm is when going around a turn.
>>=20
>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fot <fot@autox.team.net=
> wrote:
>>> A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through=
 a tight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear t=
oe out will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights=
. Rear toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scr=
ubbing speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my opi=
nion the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for better=
 turn in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost as w=
ell. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=9D (no=
t sure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your ha=
nds and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crac=
k or rut in the road.
>>>=20
>>> My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I run zero toe at the rear and 1/1=
6=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at the center of tire sidewall on 2=
0=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D dia wheels.=20
>>> Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.
>>> Good luck,
>>> Brian=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>=20
>>> On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot <fot@autox.team.n=
et> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you have been=
 running that way you should notice a difference in straight line stability a=
s well as turn in response.
>>>=20
>>> On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <=
fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found that the rear wheels h=
ave 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to rear) instead of the ex=
pected toe in.
>>> Removing 1 shim on the outside suspension point of the trailing arms wil=
l change things to 2.5mm toe in. I think I will go for that, unless fot memb=
ers have experienced that more or less toe in are giving better results (esp=
ecially turn in characteristics)
>>> Marcel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot@autox.team.net
>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>=20
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t@att.net
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
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9@yahoo.com
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>=20
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>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot@autox.team.net
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
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>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
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>=20
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>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Not sure the dynamics of a tr4 suspension b=
ut yes, I=E2=80=99m with others, spitfire 1/8 total out in front and 1/8 tot=
al in at the rear.&nbsp;<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">S=
ent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 9, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Br=
ad Eells via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.ne=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><me=
ta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Intere=
sting that when I inquired about rear toe for the Spitfire, one of our estee=
med members suggested 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in as a critical setting.<div><br></d=
iv><div>I had the race shop check it as I had done nothing more than disasse=
mbled rebuilt and reassembled the rear suspension as I had found it.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>They found the setting at 1/8=E2=80=9D toe in. It had come=
 off the track in 1976 after a very successful SCCA career set that way.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Good enough for me...<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSigna=
ture" dir=3D"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent from my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br>On Jun 9, 2019, at 8:12 AM, John Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">I read somewhere that the toe angle varie=
s with the position of the trailing arm through its travel.&nbsp; If you do a=
lignment at the static point, it is not where your trailing arm is&nbsp;when=
 going around a turn.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:49 AM Brian Dennis via Fo=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
A little toe out is an old auto-x trick. It helps rotate the car through a t=
ight course. However, for road racing it is probably not optimal. Rear toe o=
ut will make it unstable at high speed and will scrub speed on straights. Re=
ar toe in will make the car more stable at high speed at the cost of scrubbi=
ng speed. That being said outside of extreme auto-x or similar in my opinion=
 the rear tires should always be zero toe. If you are looking for better tur=
n in try a little toe out at the front. However this comes at a cost as well=
. It will scrub speed and can induce some =E2=80=9Cdartyness=E2=80=9D (not s=
ure that=E2=80=99s a word) in the steering. So make sure you keep your hands=
 and grip on the wheel at all times. Toe out will want to follow any crack o=
r rut in the road.<div><br></div><div>My hillclimb spitsix (gt6 suspension) I=
 run zero toe at the rear and 1/16=E2=80=9D toe out at the front measured at=
 the center of tire sidewall on 20=E2=80=9D diameter tire and 13=E2=80=9D di=
a wheels.&nbsp;</div><div>Hope that=E2=80=99s helpful.</div><div>Good luck,<=
/div><div>Brian&nbsp;<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/=
?.src=3DiOS" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br><br><p=
 class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size:=
15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding-top:15px;margin-top:0px">On Sunday, June 9=
, 2019, 10:18 AM, Rick Parent via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430iosymail"><div id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330=
430yiv5379700208"><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv537970020=
8ydp206ee70fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot=
;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
        <div>The general rule is you never want toe out on the rear, if you h=
ave been running that way you should notice a difference in straight line st=
ability as well as turn in response.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_qu=
oted" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yahoo_quoted_0644770806"=
>
            <div style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,A=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
               =20
                <div class=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt298=
7739605" id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208yqt35347"><div>
                    On Sunday, June 9, 2019, 5:52:49 AM EDT, van.mulders.mar=
cel--- via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">f=
ot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"gmail-m_1522655942828330430yiv5379700208"><d=
iv><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10=
pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div>Checking the rear axle of my TR4A racecar, I found=
 that the rear wheels have 2mm toe out (distance between the tyres front to r=
ear) instead of the expected toe in.</div><div>Removing 1 shim on the outsid=
e suspension point of the trailing arms will change things to 2.5mm toe in. I=
 think I will go for that, unless fot members have experienced that more or l=
ess toe in are giving better results (especially turn in characteristics)</d=
iv><div>Marcel</div></div></div></div>______________________________________=
_________<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailt=
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