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Jonmac,
Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas
afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the
VTR?
The Internet does have different effects. On the one hand it does make it
easier to FIND local clubs. 10 years ago in Dallas we'd have people walk up
during a show and be amazed that there is a Dallas club devoted to Triumphs.
As you point out, having information "freely given" does make some people
feel less urgency to join a club to get answers to the mysteries posed by
the elusive "Stan Part". As part of Allexperts I've been advising people
on how to fix their Triumphs. My usual advice? Look at the VTR website for
vendor information, and look at the VTR website for local chapter
information, as a way to hook up with other owners.
I also do strongly advocate picking up a Bentley manual for their car,
instead of relying on some idiot on the internet. Wish I got a commission
from RB.
I think the US clubs are starting to hit a balance point. The "original"
unmolested cars are either ratty or gone. The "restored" toys are still out
there, although not driven anywhere as often at they were when new. Most of
the people with restored cars are aware of the different clubs and I suspect
that when the cars are sold that information is also passed along. The new
owners might not take note.. until something breaks and they're told by the
suppliers that it's "NLA" new. Then they'll find the clubs again.
Some of the race cars will be "barned".. or put out to rust like the side
curtain car in NJ. Some more of the ratty unmolested cars will find their
new lives as race cars.
As I understand it, the 1997 VTR National in Dallas was the first to have a
separate concours class for "prepared" cars. Or was I just sunstroked from
running the Autocross that week?
I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's
one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting
to see what form that recognition will take.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
Too many toys, not enough time
_____
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of John Macartney
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM
To: N197TR4@cs.com
Cc: fot@autox.team.net; bdischer@blakedischer.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT
Andy Mace wrote:
This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined:
perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of
VTR?
I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially
summarised as follows:
1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and
because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to
accommodate your usage preference.
2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are
getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships
3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast
custodians and will need to have 'a home'
4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception
in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this
5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so
small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as
heretofore. This begs the question
6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable
eventuality?
7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.'
The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds
will become ever more infrequent
With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the
UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as
long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on
"How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish
in size.
Rant off
Jonmac
____________________________________________________________
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charset="us-ascii"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii=
">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMI=
LY: Arial" =
bottomMargin=3D7 bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMar=
gin=3D7>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Jonmac,</SP=
AN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Interesting=
points. =
Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are yo=
u =
advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>The Interne=
t does have =
different effects. On the one hand it does make it easier to FIND =
local =
clubs. 10 years ago in Dallas we'd have people walk up during a sh=
ow and =
be amazed that there is a Dallas club devoted to Triumphs.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>As you poin=
t out, having =
information "freely given" does make some people feel less urgency to jo=
in a =
club to get answers to the mysteries posed by the elusive "Stan =
Part". As part of Allexperts I've been advising people on ho=
w to fix =
their Triumphs. My usual advice? Look at the VTR website for=
vendor =
information, and look at the VTR website for local chapter information, =
as a way =
to hook up with other owners.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>I also do s=
trongly =
advocate picking up a Bentley manual for their car, instead of relying o=
n some =
idiot on the internet. Wish I got a commission from RB.</SPAN></DI=
V>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>I think the=
US clubs are =
starting to hit a balance point. The "original" unmolested cars ar=
e either =
ratty or gone. The "restored" toys are still out there, although n=
ot =
driven anywhere as often at they were when new. Most of the people=
with =
restored cars are aware of the different clubs and I suspect that when t=
he cars =
are sold that information is also passed along. The new owners mig=
ht not =
take note.. until something breaks and they're told by the suppliers tha=
t it's =
"NLA" new. Then they'll find the clubs again.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Some of the=
race cars =
will be "barned".. or put out to rust like the side curtain car in NJ.&n=
bsp; =
Some more of the ratty unmolested cars will find their new lives as race=
=
cars.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>As I unders=
tand it, the =
1997 VTR National in Dallas was the first to have a separate concours cl=
ass for =
"prepared" cars. Or was I just sunstroked from running the Autocro=
ss that =
week?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>I think it'=
s in the VTR =
interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the =
cars in =
front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form tha=
t =
recognition will take.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Cheers,</SP=
AN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008></SPAN>&nbs=
p;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Jim</SPAN><=
/DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Dallas</SPA=
N></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D140574622-24092008>Too many to=
ys, not enough =
time</SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> fot-bounces@autox.team.net =
[mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>John =
Macartney<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM<BR><B>To=
:</B> =
N197TR4@cs.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> fot@autox.team.net; =
bdischer@blakedischer.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] VTR & =
FoT<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Andy Mace wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT id=3Drole_document face=3DArial size=3D3>This does raise an i=
nteresting =
possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some =
sort of =
"Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like thi=
s, =
essentially summarised as follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph=
(or =
Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or nat=
ional =
club to accommodate your usage preference.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and=
current =
owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club =
memberships</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive =
their =
enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this =
- and its =
my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and =
custodian =
base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be=
viable =
as heretofore. This begs the question</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>6. What plans are national clubs making to address t=
hat =
inevitable eventuality?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'g=
row club =
membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already kno=
wn. =
Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidenc=
e as it =
relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at =
all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to pro=
vide =
'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the interne=
t, clubs =
will continue to diminish in size.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Rant off</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Jonmac</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
<font face=3D"Times-New-Roman" size=3D"2"><br><br>______________________=
______________________________________
<br><a href=3Dhttp://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/Ioyw6i4tK0S=
sK9n6LkTvyKdM7PPU9nkmPDtnTck07Kqvz4xpGXufc0/ target=3D"_blank">Wanna los=
e weight? Weight Loss Programs that work. Click here.</font></a><br>
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