Well we are not all that far apart on your reply this time. Conceptually I
agree with most of what you say. I do think your numbers a little stiff, to
the point of being unrealistic. Not when 21 of 32 classes did not reach your
40 number.
But the number is an arbitrary thing that is calculating dancing angels on a
pinhead.
Once we get a determination that says meet a goal and achieve success, later
we can determine what that defined goal should be. It can even be modified
year to year but the process would remain. I am more interested here in a
defined process than what number is the "right" number.
BTW, another element in my mind that I don't think I have voiced here yet --
just because a car makes numbers *this year* to attain Championship Class
status (I like that term Sirota came up with) does not mean it would
automatically be a Championship Class forever after. It could still go into
next year as a Supplemental and again have to make the numbers to break out.
It might have to do that 2-3 times to attain permanent status. But its
drivers each year it attained enough entry to break out would be legitimate
champions and not some Solo II stepchildren. And the years it didn't break
out, there would be no champion and it would remain within the embrace of
its parent class (see my F/SAE example again).
Some terminology I am playing with:
* Regional class - Any class not in the Solo II rulebook but created for a
Region's own purposes on the local level.
* National class - Any class in the Solo II rulebook. It is national because
it is controlled by the SEB.
* Permanent class - Any National class that will automatically be run for
trophies at Divisionals, Tours and Nationals.
* Supplemental class - Any other National class that will run within another
Permanent "Parent" class (and expected not to be fully competitive against
well-prepared cars in the Parent class). Also any non-National class running
under a proposed ruleset for purposes of evaluation (may or may not be
eligible for awards depending on whether it technically fits within the
Parent class's ruleset; if not, its entry also would not be considered for
trophy depth of the parent class [example, Baby Grands that ran with DP in
1998]).
* Championship class - Any class at Divisionals/Tours/Nationals running for
championship awards. All Permanent classes are Championship classes.
Supplemental National classes that achieve a specified entry limit will be
broken out of its parent class to become its own Championship Class for that
event.
* Exhibition Class - Any Permanent Class failing to meet a predetermined
entry minimum at Nationals will be run in the following year as an
Exhibition Class and not as a Championship class. An Exhibition class will
be bumped to a higher class, if any, to compete for awards. An Exhibition
class that exceeds a predetermined entry minimum will immediately be
reinstated as a Championship class for that Nationals and the subsequent
year.
That last one comes up as part of this overall concept but addresses a
different situation, the lightly-subscribed class.
On that last, consider AP and BP, both nine cars this year (Open/Ladies
together). Neither meeting a 10-car minimum. Under this concept BP becomes
an Exhibition class, running in the following season within AP, which with
the added BP cars now has enough to remain a Championship class. Also, the
BP cars in the combined class retain their BP identity, run with "BP" on the
cars, are still listed under BP in the rulebook. But BP is still in control
of its own destiny. Next year if BP booms in with 18 entries, it breaks out
to its own class again and stays that way the following year. AP with the
same nine (or fewer) is STILL a Championship class -- if you come expecting
to run for a championship that expectation is not taken away -- but the
following year AP bumps to DM/EM as an Exhibition class. If AM is the one
that fails to make numbers, it has noplace to bump but can run by itself as
an Exhibition class, which also gives it the means to make numbers again and
control its own destiny.
--Rocky Entriken
----- Original Message -----
From: <dg50@daimlerchrysler.com>
To: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>
Cc: <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Supplemental classes
> > But yes, the target has to be large enough to be significant.
>
> More than that. The class needs to be able to generate the kinds of
numbers
> that can justify creating it in the first place.
>
> We have too many classes as it sits. Unless a new class is pulling in
LARGE
> numbers, it isn't really needed. We don't need any more "3 cars at Tours,
> 20-ish cars at Nationals" classes.
>
> If one is going to cause all the pain of adding a new class, it had better
> be a "15 cars at Tours, 40-ish cars at Nationals" kind of class to justify
> it.
>
> >> the class should be deep enough to make bottomfeeding either class
> >> a low-percentage option.
>
> > Agree, but how long must the wait be? How many times does it have to do
> > that?
>
> Based on my experience, a minimum of 2 years in the best case, and
> furthermore, there should be no more than 2 Sup classes in the pipeline at
> any one time.
>
> Make numbers 2 years in a row, you're in. Fail to make numbers 2 years in
a
> row, you're gone. That's the way the current system works, and so far, so
> good.
>
> > If you get some "decently-prepped ESP car"
> > winning, then the class is challenged to rise to that level.
>
> Not when a class is new.
>
> New classes are fragile things. They totally depend on the good will and
> egos of the people who have taken the risk to invest in the class in the
> first place. Bottomfeeders trash egos, and trashed egos find someplace
else
> to play.
>
> Once it gets established, a class develops its own community, and its own
> zietgiest. Once that's in place, an attempt at bottomfeeding - and
> especially, a SUCESSFUL attempt at bottom feeding - might (would be, in
the
> SM case today) be taken as a challenge and an opportunity. But not in the
> early years.
>
> You'll have to trust me on this one. I've been there.
>
> >> True enough. But the current sup system protects the embryo sup classes
> by
> >> making them unattractive to all but the people who really "are" members
> of
> >> the class.
>
> > Seems like working against itself there. You want attractive.
>
> You want "attractive" _to the people and cars you expect to populate your
> class_ You do NOT want "attractive" to people who are going to skim the
> first couple of easy wins, and then skip town for the next easy target.
>
> If you are foisting another new class on the sport, you want it populated
> with the people who believe in the class concept so passionately, so
> completely, that they are willing to take the risks and buck the
> unattractive aspects of being an early adoptor because they intend to
stick
> around for a long time. You want settlers, not carpetbaggers and
> transients.
>
> But even true believers can be tasked beyond all endurance, and that's
> pretty well what bottomfeeders do. They spoil the party by taking a win
> away from "one of our own".
>
> >> But at the same time, our performance as a class relative to the rest
of
> >> the sport and to our own potential was way, way below the curve.
>
> > Says who?
>
> Says everyone who was involved. When you take an ESP or BSP car, throw all
> kinds of extra modifications at it that are supposed to make the car go
> faster, and then you run slower times than the classes the cars came from
> in the first place, it's a fair assumption that you're behind the curve.
>
> > What, for example, is the curve in Prepared
>
> Oooohhh... you don't want to go there, or I'll just wind up pissing Mark
> Andy off again. :)
>
> > If you think SM had reached its potential this year,
>
> SM reached, on average, its _minimum acceptable_ potential this year. It
> will continue to get much faster with time, of that I have no doubt.
>
> It has gotten strong enough now that an attempt to bottomfeed is unlikely
> to succeed. If you like, it's no longer "on the bottom" to be fed upon.
>
> DG
/// unsubscribe/change address requests to majordomo@autox.team.net or try
/// http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo
/// Partial archives at http://www.team.net/archive
|