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Re: [Zmagnette] Paint <zmagnette@autox.team.net> <zmagnette.autox.team.n

To: "'List for the Z Magnette Group - North America'" <zmagnette@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Paint <zmagnette@autox.team.net> <zmagnette.autox.team.net>
From: "John Park" <jpark@bmts.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:20:24 -0500
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: zmagnette@autox.team.net
References: <5ujc1n00m0NyJgq01ujdj7><EB6247DBE94F45C4841DCDE943935763@stevet8w82kgp4><6p8y1n00J0NyJgq01p8zaK><E7A9BD8BCB614DFE8D8A216A8F1CD73D@stevet8w82kgp4> <72Ji1n0240NyJgq012JkD8><BA5AC5F65EF646AC88FAF75FD9D6527D@stevet8w82kgp4> <7WlH1n0010NyJgq01WlJal> <D103FB6D166F4787A7E469ACDF740535@stevet8w82kgp4>
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Hi Steve, 

Thanks for the compliments again on my car. I had a lot of thoughts on the
painting of my car and had a lot of discussions with various paint and body
shops before I picked this guy. It took 7.5 years for him to finish the job
and some of that might have been me interfering to get him to do it to the
extent I wanted as I understood it should be done by some other shops and
people like you. I'm just trying to get an accurate description for future
reference and I know looking at your BGT in Reno you do excellent work and
you have a nice way of clearly explaining things. I am in awe of people like
you, Steve Hanegan and Allen Bachelder who do marvelous work beyond what my
skill sets are. I know there are others out there who have the same skills
sets so don't anyone take offense. 

I'm kind of am a person who likes to have quality things and works hard at
the things I do well in order to pay someone else to do the type of job I 

can't achieve or don't have the time to achieve. Maybe when I retire in the
not too distant future. I like to operate things and see the 4 dimensional
beauty they have.

I'll try and slot the two "episodes" together for my "collection" of fix it
stories.

            Regards,

            John

 

From: zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net
[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Kirby
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:59 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Paint

 

well gosh, I think so, BUT . . . . I hope I haven't made any other bonehead
mistakes like the one John caught.  The thing w/painting is, there are many
products and many choices.  Starting with basic decisions like "single
stage" or "clear coat".  Marinara or Alfredo?  Then, I realize I live in
Calif. where things that others or you might have are not allowed here.  For
instance, if you clear coat, then you elimiante the color sanding and
buff/polish stage.  Spaghetti or Linguini?  I already stated my preference
when doing a vintage car:  single stage, color sanded and buffed.  Others
will vehemently disagree, and that's fine.

 

I do distinctly your fantastic car at Delavan . . . beating out like what?
+/- 32 cars???  You, or someone!, obviously knows what the heck they are
doing.  Your car is drop dead gorgeous, and a model to which the rest of us
can aspire.

 

#2SteveK

----- Original Message ----- 


To: 'List for the Z Magnette Group - North America'

Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Paint

 

Hi Steve, Does this latest missive mean more adjustments to your original
discourse on painting? Being an amateur it would be nice to have the
complete and accurate version so I'm/we're not open to mis-interpretation.
I really like when you "experienced" guys give a full detailed account of
how to do things. I'm trying to keep some semblance of fix it history like
Wray Lemke did for us back at GT35. Regards, John

 

From: zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net
[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Kirby
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:23 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Paint

 

ooooops, John is absolutely right.  I should have looked at my "cans" of
junk before writing such a treatise.  I now realize how I made that mistake.
I use to use PPG DP40 epoxy sealer, and an etching stuff prior to that (a
yellow/greenie looking product).   Somewhere along there, the guy I work
with said you really didn't need to use the etching stuff anymore, as as the
DP40 would be fine without it.

 

Then, to make matters worse "in my mind", I started using SEM and UPol "self
etching primer" in spray cans, again on the advice of the same guy, when I
would occassionaly sand through, or whatever, the epoxy sealer.  My "guy"
said that would be fine, and totally compatible with the DP40 type products
(I now use a similar type product,made by TCP (which I believe is made by
ValSpar, rather than the $$$$ PPG DP40, or even the PPG Omni line).  Thus,
somehow in the back recesses of the remnants of my withering brain, the two
products somewhat merged and became "self-etching epoxy sealer".  John is
100% correct, ain't no such animal.  

 

What I will say, is that on the last 3 cars (well, 2 cars, one large truck)
I have skipped the etching stage completely, and gone completely with the
epoxy sealer, as the first step.  Have not had one problem . . . again, on
the advice of a respected auto body supplier person.  Guess that is
partially how I derived the "new (so new, it hasn't been invented yet!)
product:  self-etching epoxy sealer!  Throw in the self-etching spray cans
of primer, which was recommended to use on whatever bare metal areas might
occur, and that completed my erroneous mental route.

 

The next time I attempt such a discourse, I think I best mosey up to my
shop, and check the cans of stuff I'm talking about.  

 

#2SteveK

----- Original Message ----- 


To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America

Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:18 AM

Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Paint

 

I've never heard of " self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer ".  Always
thought it was one or the other... Either an etch primer, or a epoxy, not
both...  What product is " self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer "?  Google
gives me nothing.
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/skirby210@cox.net

  _____  

_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/skirby210@cox.net


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Hi Steve, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Thanks for the compliments again on my car. I had a lot of thoughts on =
the painting of my car and had a lot of discussions with various paint =
and body shops before I picked this guy. It took 7.5 years for him to =
finish the job and some of that might have been me interfering to get =
him to do it to the extent I wanted as I understood it should be done by =
some other shops and people like you. I&#8217;m just trying to get an =
accurate description for future reference and I know looking at your BGT =
in Reno you do excellent work and you have a nice way of clearly =
explaining things. I am in awe of people like you, Steve Hanegan and =
Allen Bachelder who do marvelous work beyond what my skill sets are. I =
know there are others out there who have the same skills sets so =
don&#8217;t anyone take offense. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>I&#8217;m kind of am a person who likes to have quality things and =
works hard at the things I do well in order to pay someone else to do =
the type of job I <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>can&#8217;t achieve or don&#8217;t have the time to achieve. Maybe when =
I retire in the not too distant future. I like to operate things and see =
the 4 dimensional beauty they have.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>I&#8217;ll try and slot the two &#8220;episodes&#8221; together for my =
&#8220;collection&#8221; of fix it stories.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> =
zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net =
[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve =
Kirby<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
List for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Zmagnette] Paint<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>well =
gosh, I think so, BUT . . . . I hope I haven't made any other bonehead =
mistakes like the one John caught.&nbsp; The thing w/painting is, there =
are many products and many choices.&nbsp; Starting with basic decisions =
like &quot;single stage&quot; or &quot;clear coat&quot;.&nbsp; Marinara =
or Alfredo?&nbsp; Then, I realize I live in Calif. where things that =
others or you might have are not allowed here.&nbsp; For instance, if =
you clear coat, then you elimiante the color sanding and buff/polish =
stage.&nbsp; Spaghetti or Linguini?&nbsp; I already stated my preference =
when doing a vintage car:&nbsp; single stage, color sanded and =
buffed.&nbsp; Others will vehemently disagree, and that's =
fine.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
do distinctly your fantastic car at Delavan . . . beating out like =
what?&nbsp; +/- 32 cars???&nbsp; You, or someone!, obviously knows what =
the heck they are doing.&nbsp; Your car is drop dead gorgeous, and a =
model to which the rest of us can aspire.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>#2SteveK<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- =
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:jpark@bmts.com"; title=3D"jpark@bmts.com">John Park</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; =
title=3D"zmagnette@autox.team.net">'List for the Z Magnette Group - =
North America'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
Sunday, December 29, 2013 10:44 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
Re: [Zmagnette] Paint<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Hi Steve, Does this latest missive mean more adjustments to your =
original discourse on painting? Being an amateur it would be nice to =
have the complete and accurate version so I&#8217;m/we&#8217;re not open =
to mis-interpretation.&nbsp; I really like when you =
&#8220;experienced&#8221; guys give a full detailed account of how to do =
things. I&#8217;m trying to keep some semblance of fix it history like =
Wray Lemke did for us back at GT35. Regards, =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net";>zmagnette-bounces@autox.=
team.net</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:zmagnette-bounces=
@autox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Kirby<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> List for the Z =
Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] =
Paint<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>ooooops, John is&nbsp;absolutely right.&nbsp; I should =
have looked at my &quot;cans&quot; of junk before writing such a =
treatise.&nbsp; I now realize how I made that mistake.&nbsp; I use to =
use PPG DP40 epoxy sealer, and an etching stuff prior to that (a =
yellow/greenie looking&nbsp;product). &nbsp; Somewhere along there, the =
guy I work with said you really didn't need to use the etching stuff =
anymore, as as the DP40 would be fine without =
it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Then, to make matters worse &quot;in my mind&quot;, I =
started using SEM and UPol &quot;self etching primer&quot; in spray =
cans, again on the advice of the same guy, when I would occassionaly =
sand through, or whatever, the epoxy sealer.&nbsp; My &quot;guy&quot; =
said that would be fine, and totally&nbsp;compatible with the DP40 type =
products (I now use a similar type product,made by TCP (which I believe =
is made by ValSpar, rather than the $$$$ PPG DP40, or even the PPG Omni =
line).&nbsp; Thus, somehow in the back recesses of the remnants of my =
withering brain, the two products somewhat merged and became =
&quot;self-etching epoxy sealer&quot;.&nbsp; John is 100% correct, ain't =
no such animal.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>What I will say, is that on the last 3 cars (well, 2 =
cars, one large truck) I have skipped the etching stage completely, and =
gone completely with the epoxy sealer, as the first step.&nbsp; Have not =
had one problem . . . again, on the advice of a respected auto body =
supplier person.&nbsp; Guess that is partially how I derived the =
&quot;new (so new, it hasn't been invented yet!) product:&nbsp; =
self-etching epoxy sealer!&nbsp; Throw in the self-etching spray cans of =
primer, which was recommended to use on whatever bare metal areas might =
occur, and that completed my erroneous mental =
route.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The next time I attempt such a discourse, I think I =
best mosey up to my shop, and check the cans of stuff I'm talking =
about.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>#2SteveK<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- =
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:mgmagnette@aol.com"; title=3D"mgmagnette@aol.com">John =
Elwood</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; =
title=3D"zmagnette@autox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group - North =
America</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:18 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
Re: [Zmagnette] Paint<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I've =
never heard of &quot; self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer =
&quot;.&nbsp; Always thought it was one or the other... Either an etch =
primer, or a epoxy, not both...&nbsp; What product is &quot; =
self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer &quot;?&nbsp; Google gives me =
nothing.<br>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette =
mailing list<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>F=
orums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums";>http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Uns=
ubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/skirby210@cox.net=
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/skirby210@cox.net</a><o=
:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
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