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Hi Allen.
My comments apply to spending time and money on any bolt on component where=
the existing fuel and ignition systems of the vehicle have not been optimi=
zed.
Most high speed roughness issues are due to a combination of worn advance s=
prings and inaccurate carburetor balance at speed.
Of course, the MGB adapter plates offer an improvement over flat pancake fi=
lters. They are available used, cheap and are a good way to go with the sli=
p on K&N filters.
My comment was addressed at the question of spending a chunk of cash on stu=
b stacks which offer a minor improvement to high speed air flow, when most =
owners don't cruise above 3500 rpm because the motors are shaking themselve=
s to bits due to basic tuning issues.
.
From: zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team=
.net] On Behalf Of Allen Bachelder
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:30 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
Gene, I'm talking about the "stub" stacks - so designed as to fit inside th=
e filters.
Kelvin, Do your comments apply to the "adaptor plates" (illustration #54 in=
the Moss catalogue http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?Plate=
IndexID=3D28996#top)?
Allen
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder =3Diii=3D<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
****************************************************************
On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Gene deRuelle wrote:
If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture to=
whatever is IN the air? In other words, you can't run the stacks and an a=
ir cleaner, can you?
Gene D
----- Original Message -----
am.net>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
I respectfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise" to=
a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product=
of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from=
whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise).=
Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same=
- because the efficiency of the system is increased.
To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli =
is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without =
some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the=
"apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a har=
d 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge=
which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.
Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack =
on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow.
Mike!
Michael Anderson
One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
775 772-2056
________________________________
k.net>>
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <zmagnette@autox.team.net=
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, then =
more power should always be the result. If more power is "Better", then the=
answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a more better r=
unning motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is to be more=
power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know=
the K&N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more air tha=
n the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment =
adjustment may be desirable for best running.
Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet roar =
under acceleration. Is that "Better" or not???
I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one fo=
r better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 10=
0 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant =
changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen th=
e mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a vari=
ety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for more civi=
lized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with veloci=
ty stacks and no filters usually.
Wombat
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM
am.net>
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking ab=
out the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the =
air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, a=
ir pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb. Without a co=
nical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inl=
et. How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing=
-top with a squared-off leading edge?
That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any of=
this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I wo=
uld think they would be Bernoullian disasters. Would a Magnette engine alw=
ays run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?
Curious in Michigan.
(Allen)
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder =3Diii=3D<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
****************************************************************
On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:
Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of =
a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer =
runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power. Not lots, bu=
t it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowi=
ng exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel economy=
. You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. =
Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of conse=
quence enters the throat... I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inc=
h K&N's on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my =
Magnette.
net> [mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Greenbe=
rg
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the e=
ngine than a regular pancake filter?
On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:
I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: http://www.mossmo=
tors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top Are these from AP=
T or Rimmer better?
Always anxious to learn...
Allen
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder =3Diii=3D<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
****************************************************************
k.net.nz> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve=
Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an =
answer from him.
So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types avai=
lable at a reasonable cost:
$32.50 ea -http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%2=
0Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx
$57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT
I've excluded the K&N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.
Are there any others that people would recommend?
They're going to fit inside K&N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.
regards,
--
Robert (in NZ)
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
s@comcast.net
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
rg@lpl.arizona.edu
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
s@comcast.net
________________________________
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
@suddenlink.net
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
sbcglobal.net
________________________________
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
e@att.net
_______________________________________________
Zmagnette mailing list
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
s@comcast.net
--_000_4D4FABA15328FC42B1AA0DEE4673548C0188BE7523A9DREX04datac_
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Allen.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My comments apply to spending time and mone=
y on any bolt on component where the existing fuel and ignition systems of =
the vehicle have not been optimized.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Most hig=
h speed roughness issues are due to a combination of worn advance springs a=
nd inaccurate carburetor balance at speed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Of=
course, the MGB adapter plates offer an improvement over flat pancake filt=
ers. They are available used, cheap and are a good way to go with the slip =
on K&N filters. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My c=
omment was addressed at the question of spending a chunk of cash on stub st=
acks which offer a minor improvement to high speed air flow, when most owne=
rs don’t cruise above 3500 rpm because the motors are shaking themsel=
ves to bits due to basic tuning issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></sp=
an></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;paddin=
g:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.=
net [mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allen Bac=
helder<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 8:30 AM<br><b>To:</b> List=
for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette=
] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Gene, I'm talking about the "stub&q=
uot; stacks - so designed as to fit inside the filters. <o:p></o:p></=
p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal>Kelvin, Do your comments apply to the "adaptor plates" (ill=
ustration #54 in the Moss catalogue <a href=3D"http://www.mossmo=
tors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top">http://www.mossmo=
tors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top</a>)?<o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>Allen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>**********************=
******************************************</span></i></b></span><span class=
=3Dapple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica"=
,"sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><div><div><div=
><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Allen & Florrie Bachelder =
=3Diii=3D<<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i=
></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica=
","sans-serif";color:black'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:=
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>No=
rth Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font=
-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-st=
yle-span><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans=
-serif";color:black'><a href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs=
">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><spa=
n class=3Dapple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-=
style-span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-ser=
if";color:black'>**********************************************************=
******</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Gene deRuelle wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",=
"sans-serif"'>If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/=
air mixture to whatever is IN the air? In other words, you can't run =
the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?</span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5=
pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica"=
,"sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Gene D</s=
pan><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:sol=
id black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0p=
t;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Mes=
sage -----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ba=
ckground:#E4E4E4'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href=
=3D"mailto:mjamgb@sbcglobal.net"; title=3D"mjamgb@sbcglobal.net">Michael And=
erson</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><spa=
n class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href=3D"mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.ne=
t" title=3D"zmagnette@autox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group - North=
America</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b=
><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span class=
=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-famil=
y:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>I respe=
ctfully disagree that more air =3D more noise by default. "Noise"=
to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-prod=
uct of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy f=
rom whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make nois=
e). Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the s=
ame - because the efficiency of the system is increased.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'colo=
r:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>To that end, Allen opens =
up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is working hard for us at=
the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some kind of "stack&=
quot; Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the "apparent=
" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard 90-=
degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge whic=
h is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<br><br>Those two reaso=
ns are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. N=
ot more air, per se, but quality of air flow.<span class=3Dapple-converted-=
space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><br>Mike!<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;back=
ground:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:=
black'>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<br>775 772-2056<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span st=
yle=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div class=
=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center;background:white'><s=
pan style=3D'color:black'><hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></=
b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Wayne &=
Isabel Hardy <<a href=3D"mailto:gwhardy@suddenlink.net";>gwhardy@suddenl=
ink.net</a>><br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </sp=
an>List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <<a href=3D"mailto:zmag=
nette@autox.team.net">zmagnette@autox.team.net</a>><span class=3Dapple-c=
onverted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-s=
pace> </span>Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM<br><b>Subject:</b><span=
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</sp=
an><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p> =
;</o:p></span></p><div id=3Dyiv1013556227><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If the carbs are tuned again to com=
pensate for more air to the inlet, then more power should always be the res=
ult. If more power is “Better”, then the answer is yes. But you=
must adjust for more airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more a=
ir will need more fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, sl=
ightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&N filter peo=
ple caution that their filters flow so much more air than the usual paper o=
nes, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment may be d=
esirable for best running.</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Of course all this extra a=
ir flow is also likely to create more inlet roar under acceleration. Is tha=
t “Better” or not???</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:=
13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I personally run the=
MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one for better access to t=
he carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 100 degree days now sw=
inging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant changes in idle spee=
ds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen the mix by about 1/8th=
of a turn.</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:black'>MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filte=
r for better engine life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations a=
round the world, and for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Thei=
r true race motors ran with velocity stacks and no filters usually.</span><=
span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:bla=
ck'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgrou=
nd:white'><span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Wombat</span><span style=3D'font-size:14.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> =
;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgr=
ound:whitesmoke'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:bl=
ack'> </span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif";color:black'><a href=3D"mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" title=3D"bachldrs@comcast.net">Allen Bachelder</a><o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:bl=
ack'>Sent:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";col=
or:black'>Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span><=
/b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a href=
=3D"mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" title=3D"zmagnette@a=
utox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group - North America</a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'>=
<b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:=
black'>Subject:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <=
/span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if";color:black'>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></d=
iv></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span=
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm cautiously ve=
nturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about the Bernoulli=
Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air pressure is m=
aximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air pressure decre=
ases as air speed increases inside the carb. Without a conical stub s=
tack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet. Ho=
w much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top wi=
th a squared-off leading edge?<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:black'>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake ple=
num perform any of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T=
-series cars. I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters. Woul=
d a Magnette engine always run better with stub stacks rather than the orig=
inal plenum?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:b=
lack'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:b=
lack'>Curious in Michigan.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:black'>(Allen)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span class=3Dyiv10135=
56227apple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Hel=
vetica","sans-serif";color:black'>*****************************************=
***********************</span></i></b></span><span class=3Dyiv1013556227app=
le-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans=
-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Allen & Florrie Bacheld=
er =3Diii=3D<<br>Spring Creek Home f=
or Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:bla=
ck'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span=
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'=
>North Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background=
:white'><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href=3D"=
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs";>http://www.mgexperience.net/me=
mber/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-sty=
le-span><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div>=
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span class=
=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>************************************=
****************************</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:black'>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a b=
it of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in l=
onger runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power. N=
ot lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your =
freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better f=
uel economy. You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to=
6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping =
nothing of consequence enters the throat… I have a set of 2.25 inch s=
tacks in my 3.25 inch K&N’s on my MGB and they seem to help. Just=
the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.</span><span style=3D'color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:wh=
ite'><span style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in=
0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From:<=
/span></b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </spa=
n></span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:black'><a href=3D"mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net</a><span class=3Dyiv1013556227app=
le-converted-space> </span>[<a href=3D"mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.=
team.net">mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]<span class=3Dyiv1013=
556227apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=3Dyiv10=
13556227apple-converted-space> </span></b>Richard Greenberg<br><b>Sent=
:</b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesda=
y, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple=
-converted-space> </span>List for the Z Magnette Group - North America=
<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space> <=
/span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgro=
und:white'><span style=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:bla=
ck'>What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to t=
he engine than a regular pancake filter?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:bla=
ck'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>On Nov 13, 2013, at 9=
:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style=
=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'mar=
gin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>I've always just used the ite=
m #54 from the Moss catalog:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-spac=
e> </span><a href=3D"http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?=
PlateIndexID=3D28996#top" target=3D"_blank">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/=
ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D28996#top</a><span class=3Dyiv1013556227ap=
ple-converted-space> </span><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> =
</span>Are these from APT or Rimmer better?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:=
black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>Always anxious to=
learn...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>Allen<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'backgrou=
nd:white'><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span><b><i><span style=3D'=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>*********=
*******************************************************</span></i></b></spa=
n><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Al=
len & Florrie Bachelder =3Diii=3D&l=
t;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span style=3D'color:=
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'background:white'><b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"H=
elvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span=
></i></b><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><i><span style=3D'=
font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>North Str=
eet, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'background:white'><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-style-span>=
<b><i><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";c=
olor:black'><a href=3D"http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs"; target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><=
/span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span class=3Dy=
iv1013556227apple-style-span><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"He=
lvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>****************************************=
************************</span></span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span sty=
le=3D'color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>On Nov=
13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</span><a href=3D"mailto:monster@caverock.net.nz"; target=3D"_blank">monst=
er@caverock.net.nz</a><span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'>Hi everyone,<b=
r><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried ema=
iling Steve Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I have=
n't got an answer from him.<br><br>So... from a light scour of the internet=
there appears to be two types available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea=
-<a href=3D"http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub=
%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx" target=3D"_blank">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem=
/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>$57 pair -<s=
pan class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space> </span><a href=3D"http=
://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT" target=3D"_blank">http://www.rim=
merbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've excluded the K&N ones a=
s they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>Are there any others that people=
would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit inside K&N filters that a=
re 2 1/8" thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple=
-converted-space> </span><br>Robert (in NZ)<br>_______________________=
________________________<br>Zmagnette mailing list<br><br>Donate:<span clas=
s=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space> </span><a href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><=
br>Archive:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space> </span><a=
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
/archive</a><br>Forums:<span class=3Dyiv1013556227apple-converted-space>&nb=
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