Jeff,
Good overview, but here are a couple small items worth mentioning:
Paul's kit does modify the BMC flywheel to accept the stock Nissan pressure
plate. This way you can use the stock clutch plate and TO bearing, and no
modification to the clutch fork, or TO carrier is necessary. The advantage, of
this is, if you need to replace the clutch plate and TO bearing, you can just
get 'stock' nissan parts from your local parts place, or Nissan dealer.
Bill's kit requires that you send in the clutch fork, and TO carrier to be
modified, and you must also cut the 'tube' that the TO carrier slides on in the
tranny itself. In addition the kit includes a 'modified' nissan clutch plate to
work with this setup. Because of the mods, whenever you need to to a clutch
job,
you can't just buy and use a 'stock' nissan clutch plate/TO bearing, from your
local parts place and install them.
In either case, when you buy the kit, you still need to ship parts back to both
for modification.
I'm not sure, but I believe, that even after Paul modifies your flywheel, you
can still use it with the stock setup... Paul??
Also, included in paul's kit is an 'angle-drive' adaptor for you speedo, and in
the Rivergate kit this costs extra, so, the difference in price can be as much
as $200.
I purchased the Rivergate kit myself, but that was before I learned about the
Morris Service kit. In retrospec, I may have gone with the Morris kit instead.
I especially like the fact that the starter was move on the Morris kit to take
advantage of the 'bulge' in the 210 tranny housing, and wondered why the
Rivergate kit didn't do this. (I wondered about this, even before I knew about
Paul's kit)
I have talked to both Paul and Bill on the phone, and they were both extremely
knowlegible, and helpful. So from my perspective, you really can't go wrong
with
either kit.
- Bryan (59-bugeye)
San Jose, CA
PS - I plan to do my 5-speed conversion sometime in the next 3-5 weeks, and I
think I figured out a very simple/elegant way to install the stock spridget
clutch slave cylinder, so that it remains upright for 'bleeding'. I'll let
eveyone know if this works out.
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>X-Sender: jboatri@pop3.service.emory.edu
>To: Kroyell@aol.com
>Subject: Re: 5 Speed Prices
>Cc: spridgets@autox.team.net, pasgeirsson@juno.com, Rivergate@compuserve.com
>
>York,
>
>I just purchased a 5 speed conversion kit for my Sprite. There are
>two kits that I'm aware of being sold in the States, one from
>Morriservice (Paul Asgeirsson) <mailto:pasgeirsson@juno.com> and one
>from Rivergate (Bill Perry) <http://www.rivergate5speed.com>. Both
>use the Datsun 210 (not B-210) transmission. There is another kit
>sold by Frontline <http://www.british-cars.org.uk/kimber/frontline/>
>in England that uses a Ford gearbox. It may require cutting of the
>frame and tunnel panels and of course rewelding of same. I don't know
>much about it. It also costs about $1500, but includes everything
>(kit plus tranny).
>
>The two Datsun kits don't require changing much if anything in the
>Spridget. Both kits work and cost about the same at the end of the
>day, though there are many options for both and so pricing will vary
>according to your needs. The people behind both kits are extremely
>well-respected and have worked with British cars for a long time.
>Paul frequently contributes to the spridgets list.
>
>I don't think that the 210 transmissions are scarce. I found 6 in the
>Atlanta metro area after making just 3 phone calls. I pulled one from
>the junkyard three weeks ago for $50. Additionally, they are sold by
>several people online (try spridget list member David "Crash" Ramsey
><dwramsey@worldnet.att.net>) and both kit manufacturers will sell you
>one. Finally, I am replacing the pivot bushings and the rubber boots
>on mine. The local Nissan dealership had bushings and one boot on the
>shelf. The second boot arrived the next morning from a cross town
>dealership. The point is that parts are still available.
>
>Here is a brief listing of differences between the two Datsun
>conversions in my opinion. I am open to discussion of possible
>inaccuracies.
>
>Clutch: Bill uses the BMC pressure plate and a Toyota clutch,
>preventing the need for machining of the BMC flywheel to accept the
>Datsun clutch. Paul is all BMC in front of the adaptor engine plate
>and all Datsun behind the plate. This requires that you mail your
>flywheel to Paul for resurfacing to accept the Datsun clutch. This is
>by far the biggest discussion point between the two kits. Many people
>using Bill's kit have had no clutch problems. At least one person
>using Bill's kit with a 948 engine and 1098 pressure plate had all
>kinds of clutch problems resulting in rapid wear and ended up going
>with a Datsun clutch after having his local machine shop resurface
>and balance his flywheel. Some people with Bill's kit complain about
>the clutch being very snappish. I have driven one such conversion
>where the total functional clutch travel was about the first one inch
>off the firewall. This is more of a problem with pre-'68 cars that
>had the dual bore master cylinder. Bill now sells a special CNC slave
>cylinder set up that supposedly fixes all clutch feel problems. I
>have one, but it's so new that I may be the first customer using it.
>Paul says that clutch feel is different but not bad with his kit.
>
>Starter location: Bill keeps the starter in the same (BMC) location.
>This necessitates a large cut in the side of the Datsun transmission
>housing so that the BMC starter Bendix has clearance. Nobody using
>Bill's kit has had any problem with this AFAIK. Bill also sells a
>very nice fiberglass cover to go over the hole to keep dirt out.
>OTOH, Paul moves the starter down so that the bendix is in the bulge
>that the Datsun starter occupied when in the 210. There is still some
>relieving needed, but not as much. I think that this difference is a
>wash with one intriguing exception: You can use a gear reduction
>starter that does not have a bendix shaft. On Bill's kit, there still
>will need to be some clearance cutting, but not nearly as much. On
>Paul's kit, potentially there will be no need at all for cutting. My
>only concern is whether there is enough clearance between the body
>panel and frame rail because Paul places the starter lower than Bill.
>It may be a solution to a problem that does not exist. GR starters
>can be expensive ($225 to $300) for the nice racer ones. However, the
>starter from a post '89 Isuzu Trooper V6 ($75) is a straight
>trade-out for the BMC unit. I've also heard that the Isuzu P'UP
>starter will work. Body clearance for either is a concern, but if you
>pursue this, please let me know as I'm interested.
>
>Rear crank seal: Bill sells a true rear seal that looks like it will
>work better than the BMC solution and the rear seal kit sold by Mini
>Mania. I have one and it's a slick set up. However, it is so new that
>I have not heard of any testimonials other than from Bill, who has it
>in a couple of cars. Paul sells a seal solution also, but it's not a
>true seal AFAIK. Bill will modify Paul's adaptor plate to accept
>Bill's seal.
>
>Gear shift lever: For either kit, you must use the bottom part of the
>Datsun lever. Bill will cut the Datsun lever and machine it so that
>you can use the BMC shifter knob. Paul cuts the top off the Datsun
>lever and the bottom off the BMC lever, then he welds the Datsun
>bottom to the side of the BMC top. This allows use of the original
>BMC shifter housing. Bill's solution requires that you use a shifter
>boot (rubber, vinyl, leather, etc) depending on your individual car.
>
>Usage and anecdotes: I know of 5 or 6 people on the spridgets email
>list that use Bill's kit. There are at least 3 in the Atlanta metro
>area. They are all reasonably to extremely happy with it. I don't
>know anyone using Paul's kit, but I know that several are out there.
>I have never heard anyone or even heard of anyone saying anything bad
>about either guy. Both answered all of my questions in detail and
>bent over backwards to help me understand exactly what their kits do
>and do not do. Both have decades of experience with these cars.
>
>My decision: I bought Bill's kit, but not for a sound reason really.
>The machine shop that my rebuilder uses is cranky and persnickety.
>They had already begun balancing my engine when I determined that IF
>I was going to use Paul's kit, I would need to send the flywheel to
>him. The rebuilder basically wasn't happy with this because he did
>not want to 'mess with the machinist' and also he was concerned about
>the timing - the racing season was upon us and my little street job
>was rapidly moving down the totem pole! Given that I usually can't
>make up my mind about anything, I guess this all worked out for the
>best.
>
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>At 11:25 PM -0500 3/27/00, Kroyell@aol.com wrote:
>>Hi all
>>
>>It has been my desire to switch to a 5 speed with all the good reports coming
>>from the list. Now I need to know what is the best & most cost
>>effective way to
>>make that change? What is the best source for the conversion kit?
>>If there more than 1
>>company making them.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for all the valuable info.
>>
>>York Powell
>>72 Midget
>
>
>Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
>Assistant Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
>Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
>mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
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