Herb,
Datsun used the Fairlady name on all of its top line sports cars, right up
to the 300ZX, so possibly this is the source of confusion. The Datsun
Fairlady, aka Datsun 1500, was introduced in '62, same year as the MGB
(sorry, I thought it came out earlier in Japan). But the continuous
development of their roadster series (S211 of '59, SP212 of '60, and SP310
of '62) suggests that they had some ideas independently from BMC's Enever,
given that those cars don't look like MGAs (I have no idea about the
mechanicals). I bring this up because there seems to be a common asumption
that the Fairlday was a rip-off of the MGB. As to the proverb, maybe the
Japanese assimilated that, too. :) The Chinese postdocs in the lab sure
think so. But hey, if I'm wrong, I apologize for spreading misinformation.
Your point that you say I missed and that you say was a statement of fact -
which fact was that? The first paragraph of your original post was opinion,
which you state as such, twice:
>In my opinion the Japanese can engineer...
>My belief is that this is due to a fundamental...
Your second paragraph contains the assertions about the origins of various
Japanese cars. Some of these may be correct, but they are unproven
hypotheses until we can find facts (records, etc) indicating the source of
the designs. For at least one of your examples (the Datsun 1800/2000 [aka
Fairlady]), the data do not support your hypothesis in terms of an MGB
connection, though of course the underlying mechanicals could be complete
thefts of British technology, and we of course cannot discount true
industrial espionage. Do you have any information on that - you alluded to
Triumph, I think. A couple of websites contain some pertinent information
about the Fairlady history:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/3823/fairlady.html
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~SROC/Rob.html
As to my first post, and as others have pointed out in this thread, all
manufacturers build on the work of those who came before. Unfortunately for
the US/Japanese trade balance, the Japanese appear to be better at it right
now. I guess this means I'm stupid, because the only two cars I've ever
bought new were American and actually were built in America. With the
exception of some college VW bugs and my current ride (Sprite), I've only
ever driven and owned American cars built in America.
As for the press showering accolades on the Japanese auto industry, what do
you read? My general auto reading list includes Road and Track, Automobile,
and Car and Driver. With the exception of the Honda Accord, none of these
mags shower any particular praise on Japanese cars, certainly no more than
on German or English cars (Aston Martin and Jaguar [I know it's owned by
Ford]) or other European cars. They run various tests; various cars do
better than others. They have lots of opinions. Most of these are that
German cars are the best at just about everything that is not quantifiable,
and are in fact the best at things that are quantifiable. They absolutely
hammer the Japanese for conservative styling. They also hammer GM for the
same reason. Are they right? I don't know - see the above paragraph.
But to get at the point you were making - Do the Japanese only copy? You
say that the auto press showers them with accolades. If this has been going
on for a long time, then they must have been building good cars for a long
time. If so, in the 1990s, from whom would they want to copy? The Germans?
The Swedes? The Americans? How about themselves?
Here's MY new hypothesis: The Japanese have now been building good cars for
so long that they actually can build from their own legacy. Is there
ANYTHING about the S2000 that says that it is anything but a very high
performance Honda. Doesn't Honda build solid race engines? Haven't they had
a race engine program since the '60s? Doesn't the car's styling scream
Japanese? The front end treatment is easily as distinctive as an Aston. I
mean, nobody is going to mistake that car for something from Germany or
Great Britain. You may not like the looks (I don't), but the styling is
distinctly Japanese. I can't see that it's a copy of anything. The same
can be said of the year 2000 Toyota Celica. OTOH, if I were Porsche, I'd
be suing for trademark infringement because the MR-Spyder sure _looks_ like
a Boxster. But I guess it all evens out - the new Mercedes S Class sure
looks like last year's Lexus GS 400, which no doubt originally looked like
the old S Class.
BTW, the Bugeye was a direct and complete rip-off of...
Kidding! I'm just kidding!
J
---
On 9/19/99, Herb_Goede@amsinc.com wrote:
>The Datsun Fairlady (also known as the 240Z) was introduced in 1970. The
>design and original development was actually done by TOYOTA and sold to
>Datsun. My quote of the Japanese proverb is correct according to the text
>book and class I took on Japanese culture while working with Nipon
>Telephone and Telegraph. Check your facts.
>
>The point which you missed was not a criticism, simply a statement of fact.
>I'm a little tired of the acollades the automotive press loves to shower on
>the Japanese auto industry for designs stolen from the rest of the
>industry.
>
>Herb G.
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/molvis
"Seeing the Future in a Very Tiny Way"
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