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Simon writes:
"I'm not so sure about this. Perhaps for spectator events, but not for
the more typical club events. Most clubs have had to shift their cutoff
dates forward a bit to make ends meet. The spectator events may pick
and choose, because they always have more applicants than grid spots.
Again, Monterey is the worst case with around 3:1 or 5:1."
I"m looking at VARA, for example. They had an EX or X group that was a
catchall for some 348's, fake Cobras, late Vettes, etc........I understand
they've eliminated it as they've had better subscription to their events and
can fill fields with their standard fare......
> 4. More "vintage" race organizations will be spawned to accomodate cars
> displaced from other groups. Emphasis will be on period preparation for
the
> production based cars...
It's nice to have a dreamer around. In Heaven, everybody's a vintage
racer, right? ;=3D)
In the last 4 years here in N. Cal....., a number of new organizations have
popped up and the existing orgs have been finding more new folks turning
out, more cars being built and much more interest in racing in general.
NASA spun out of SCCA and seems to be doing fine.....Green Flag racing
migrated out of the Shelby Club track group and runs 3-4 events each year
and fills 'em. Porsche Club runs 5-6 Time trials and two national club
races and finishes in the green each year. BMW club has an expanding
program........you can pinch me if you like but I don't think I'm dreaming
about this...true, they're not vintage orgs. but there's a trickle down
effect. I know Shelby clubbers who have migrated to SCCA, Porsche clubbers
gone to vintage, etc. etc.
The
> market for open wheelers will grow and prices will follow as the supply is
> fixed.
>Would that it were true! I seriously doubt this. Spectators just don't
>identify with cigar shaped objects. This is why the "tin tops" are so
>popular.
True enough, at least 4 spectators approached me at Laguna and were asking
serious questions about how to find a B/P or C/P car for vintage.......I
know several tin toppers who are looking at open wheel cars and trying to
figure out what to get. Sure, it's hard to justify 35K for a Jr. when a FF
can be had for 12K.......the point is that the sports growing and the market
will reflect that. I personally think that Jrs. are overpriced but it's a
bit of an exclusive group isn't it? Look to Europe for that trend and I bet
it continues........
In any case.....time will tell.........Happy Holidays, Simon....will look
for you at CSRG events, we're bound to meet sooner or later.......
Ted
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Date: 22 Dec 97 17:27:23
From:Simon Favre <favres@engmail.ulinear.com>
To:vintage-race@autox.team.net
Subject:Re: SSP#2 - HP:IQ Ratios
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Ted Smith wrote:
> Here's my take on your query.........Here in the states, the spectators
seem
> much more interested in the "tin tops" as you call them as opposed to the
> open wheel cars. At the Monterey Historics this year, the AP and BP cars
> and TransAm cars drew the most attention by far. The last race on Sundday
> was a F5000 race and was preceded by TransAm. The bleachers cleared after
> TA and before the F5000s were into 4 laps, traffic was backed up on the
exit
> roads. That said, most vintage events in the states aren't spectator
> events, rather are for the benefit of the participants. Being basically a=
n
> economic determinist, here's my prediction on the future.......
Monterey is perhaps a bad example. Since it's located in a county park,
the traffic in and out can be abysmal. This is a matter of simple
practicality. If you don't leave while the last group is running,
you're dead meat. ;=3D( The F5000s certainly make lots of great whooping
sounds and navigate the track at great speeds, but that late in the day,
about the only ones who stay are either camping overnite, or plan on
sitting around for a few hours till traffic dies down. Saturday is the
big day at Monterey, and then it's even worse.
> 1. As interest grows in vintage racing(and it is growing quickly here),
the
> organizers will become more particular about the type of cars they run as
> fields fill and they have more options.
I'm not so sure about this. Perhaps for spectator events, but not for
the more typical club events. Most clubs have had to shift their cutoff
dates forward a bit to make ends meet. The spectator events may pick
and choose, because they always have more applicants than grid spots.
Again, Monterey is the worst case with around 3:1 or 5:1.
> 2. Cars with "period race history" will have preference over the stockers
> that recently grew race equipment.
Again, not clear to me. If economics are the issue, clubs will fill the
grids with lots of recently commisioned race cars to make ends meet.
The big spectator events may also accept "ersatz" cars in an effort to
give people something familiar to look at. They also choose the best
looking examples of each type. A ratty car with history may not have
the edge over a perfect car recently homologated.
> 3. As more folks join the ranks vintage drivers and learn more about race
> history and the significance, driveability and fun of the open wheel cars,
> interest in them will grow. Spectators will also learn the differences an=
d
> more will watch them. Drivers may start out in "tin tops" but some will
> gravitate to the open wheelers. You can turn an old sedan or sports car
> into a vintage racer but I haven't seen anyone reproducing Lotus 18's. The
> market for open wheelers will grow and prices will follow as the supply is
> fixed.
Would that it were true! I seriously doubt this. Spectators just don't
identify with cigar shaped objects. This is why the "tin tops" are so
popular. Many of them are cars the spectators remember driving in their
youth. The swelling ranks in vintage racing are mostly "tin tops." The
ranks of recently eligible Formula Fords have grown, but I think that
has stabilized by now. As you say, there aren't any more to go around.
The other problem is that in fact, the early open wheel ranks have
diminished. Why should the price of a Lotus 18 go up when you can run
circles around one in a Formula Ford that costs 1/3 as much? Mind you,
I don't begrudge the FFords their spot on the grid. I'm actually glad
they kept the open wheel groups alive enough to keep from getting
lumped in with the "tin tops." I am opposed to mixing body types in
that regard.
> 4. More "vintage" race organizations will be spawned to accomodate cars
> displaced from other groups. Emphasis will be on period preparation for
the
> production based cars...
It's nice to have a dreamer around. In Heaven, everybody's a vintage
racer, right? ;=3D)
> 5. There will be more spectator oriented events.
Perhaps true, but there is such a thing as market saturation. There is
also the problem of scheduling events around the pro events that always
get first choice.
> 6. Everyone will have more fun........
I certainly hope so! Regardless of how the future works out, that
should be everybody's goal.
> Happy Holidaze to all.....
Ditto from me. Please take these comments as friendly discussion and
by all means enjoy the holidays.
---
Simon Favre
'58 Bourgeault Formula Junior
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