--===============4982180950888870810==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
--Apple-Mail-2611B865-2814-46B5-BF8D-B1A5C820B4E0
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That happened to my TR4A IRS twice and both times the passenger side shock a=
bsorber mounting bolts backed out. Red Locktite solved the problem.
Dave Connitt=20
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 6, 2020, at 7:13 PM, dave <dave@ranteer.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> DO NOT DO THE TUBE SHOCK CONVERSION
> =20
> Using a stiffer lever shock will get you the same place without the myriad=
problems of a tube shock conversion.
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Brian Kemp
> Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 12:50 PM
> To: Will Daehler <will.daehler@gmail.com>; triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Investigating replacing the Armstrong lever shocks w=
ith telescopic rear shock conversions
> =20
> Will - I'm not as familiar with the solid axle of the TR4, so this may or m=
ay not be relevant to your situation. =20
>=20
> There are at least three styles of tube shock conversions for the TR6 and I=
assume the 4A. The one with three triangular brackets that go through the b=
ody (likely the one you looked at from Moss), A bracket that bolts to the bo=
dy with no frame attachment, and a single plate bracket that bolts to the le=
ver shock mount.
>=20
> Also watch for feedback on people that just get the lever shocks rebuilt w=
ith a heavy duty rebuild. If I was starting over, that is probably what I w=
ould do.
>=20
> A sample of the three plate design at Moss is 670-128 - see https://mossmo=
tors.com/rear-tube-shock-conversion-kits - the Monroe shock version for the 4=
A is available. They have an article at http://www.mossmotoring.com/tr6-tub=
e-shock-conversion/ It looks like a sturdy design, but takes significant ef=
fort to install. Read the instructions from their website.
>=20
> I do not recommend the bracket that just bolts to the body without a frame=
attachments.
>=20
> I used the single plate version because it was much easier, but this desig=
n leads to flexing of the frame cross member and cracking of the frame, incl=
uding mine. See the 0091, 2217, and 2218 images attached of other people's c=
ars discovered at a local club tech clinic. If you have this design, I reco=
mmend you check the frame cross member regularly. If you have the rear spri=
ng out for any reason, run the trailing arm through its full range of motion=
and you will probably see the top of the shock mount move front to rear.
>=20
> After having my frame cracks welded, I built a new version of the single p=
late design available from some vendors. I extended the top mount for the s=
hock back about two inches and added two braces. One is a length of 1" angl=
e iron that goes between the two shock mounts near the top of the bracket, j=
ust below the body to side to side stability. The other is the more importa=
nt addition and goes from the top of the shock bracket rearward to the frame=
at about a 45 deg angle. This one stops any front to rear motion of the sh=
ock bracket. Unfortunately the car isn't easily accessible right now and I c=
an't find my pictures.
>=20
> Below is an item I wrote 20 years ago or so. The 5-6025 kit is the single=
plate design that in my opinion needs at least the added bracket from the t=
op of the shock mount to the frame.
>=20
>=20
> Tube Shock Conversion Notes
>=20
> Notes on my TR6 tube shock conversion:
> > Would like to know if anybody on the list has any knowledge or experienc=
e with
> > the shock conversion kit that v.b. sells as part # 5-6025. It is listed=
on
> > page 11 in the summer catalog.......
>=20
> I put similar brackets on my car. They are the easiest design to fit, tak=
ing about 30 minutes to install. I purchased my brackets from someone who m=
ade them for his car for $40. I bought the shocks from Pep Boys for $12.95 e=
ach. The VB shocks must be pretty good to command the $189 price tag. My d=
riving can often be aggressive, especially at autocross events (2nd place in=
class at the Moss festival and first overall at Triumphest in 1998). The c=
heap shock seem to work fine for me in the rear, though I may just not know a=
ny better. The PO put Koni's on the front.
>=20
> Installation made a tremendous improvement in my car, but that's because m=
y lever shocks were dead. I've heard lots of good things about the heavy du=
ty rebuilds to the lever shocks. Doing it again, I'd give this serious thou=
ght.
>=20
> Disadvantages of this design:
> - When the car is in the air, the limit stop for the trailing arm travel i=
s the tube shock. I had a shock fail after only a year (exchanged for free r=
eplacement). I think the other one may also need replacement, as there's oi=
l on the tube. This tension is transferred through the shock to the bracket=
, at a slight angle, torquing the frame cross member that holds the shocks a=
nd rear differential mounts. I mention this because I just discovered sever=
al broken welds including both rear differential mounts and the crossemember=
to frame connection near the right shock mount. The car had the differenti=
al reinforcing brackets installed for the DPO. I don't know if the shock co=
nversion caused this, but I think it aggravated the problem. (Any comments o=
n this from others?)
>=20
> - You are limited in tire width to 205 series tires, which may rub the bra=
cket if you have lots of camber or weak springs.
>=20
> Safety considerations:
> - The Gabrial shocks I purchased only have a single nut on each end of the=
shock. The guy I got the brackets through had a shock come undone. Your sh=
ocks should be double nutted. I used a nylocs because I had a box of them, b=
ut any nut should work.
>=20
> - Check the tires and brackets for rubbing. I have a little bit on the ri=
ght side recently, but nothing I'm concerned about. I can't see any indicat=
ion on the tire, just some rubber dust on the bracket. I run 205/65 tires a=
nd will adjust the camber on the right tire.
>=20
> If your into welding, you can make your own brackets looking at the pictur=
e. Drop me an e-mail and I'll look up the shock number again. It's off 50'=
s Studebakers and Cadillacs if I remember correctly.
>=20
> The Moss kit is an effort to install. It has three triangular brackets pe=
r side. One to the standard shock mount, the second inside the body by the f=
uel tank, and the third in the wheel well area. The first step in the instr=
uctions was to remove the fuel tank.
>=20
> I'd always avoid a shock that only bolts to the body. The dampening force=
s need to go to the frame.
>=20
> Brian
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 12/6/2020 8:34 AM, Will Daehler wrote:
> When going over bumps in my TR4 I have quite a rattle from the right rear a=
rea of my car. I have poked around by the axle, and thought I have fixed th=
e problem a couple of times. I have replaced the springs and refilled the A=
rmstrong shocks. I have poked around. While looking through my Moss catalog=
I noticed the kits for replacing the Armstrong shocks with these brackets t=
hat you could mount shock absorbers to. But the kits are NLS. No Longer Sup=
plied. I was wondering why the kits were discontinued. It could have been=
that they caused damage to the frame, or just didn=E2=80=99t work. I was h=
oping somebody had any first-hand knowledge or experience on this topic that=
they could discuss. I wonder if the racing group all have custom and propri=
etary set ups.
> =20
> Will Daehler
> 63 TR4 =20
>=20
>=20
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
> =20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
> =20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/bk13@ea=
rthlink.net
> =20
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dconnit=
t@fuse.net
--Apple-Mail-2611B865-2814-46B5-BF8D-B1A5C820B4E0
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">That happened to my TR4A IRS twice and both=
times the passenger side shock absorber mounting bolts backed out. Red Lock=
tite solved the problem.<div>Dave Connitt <br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent=
from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6=
, 2020, at 7:13 PM, dave <dave@ranteer.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D=
"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3D"Gener=
ator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
h2
{mso-style-priority:9;
mso-style-link:"Heading 2 Char";
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:18.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
font-weight:bold;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.Heading2Char
{mso-style-name:"Heading 2 Char";
mso-style-priority:9;
mso-style-link:"Heading 2";
font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;
color:#2F5496;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">DO NOT DO THE TUBE SHOCK CONVERSION<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Using a stiffer lever shoc=
k will get you the same place without the myriad problems of a tube shock co=
nversion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p>=
</p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.=
0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Triumphs <triumphs-b=
ounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Kemp<br><b>Sent:</b> Sun=
day, December 6, 2020 12:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> Will Daehler <will.daehler@g=
mail.com>; triumphs@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Invest=
igating replacing the Armstrong lever shocks with telescopic rear shock conv=
ersions<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Will - I'm not as familiar with the solid axle of t=
he TR4, so this may or may not be relevant to your situation. <br><br>=
There are at least three styles of tube shock conversions for the TR6 and I a=
ssume the 4A. The one with three triangular brackets that go through t=
he body (likely the one you looked at from Moss), A bracket that bolts to th=
e body with no frame attachment, and a single plate bracket that bolts to th=
e lever shock mount.<br><br>Also watch for feedback on people that just get t=
he lever shocks rebuilt with a heavy duty rebuild. If I was starting o=
ver, that is probably what I would do.<br><br>A sample of the three plate de=
sign at Moss is 670-128 - see <a href=3D"https://mossmotors.com/rear-tube-sh=
ock-conversion-kits">https://mossmotors.com/rear-tube-shock-conversion-kits<=
/a> - the Monroe shock version for the 4A is available. They have an a=
rticle at <a href=3D"http://www.mossmotoring.com/tr6-tube-shock-conversion/"=
>http://www.mossmotoring.com/tr6-tube-shock-conversion/</a> It looks l=
ike a sturdy design, but takes significant effort to install. Read the=
instructions from their website.<br><br>I do not recommend the bracket that=
just bolts to the body without a frame attachments.<br><br>I used the singl=
e plate version because it was much easier, but this design leads to flexing=
of the frame cross member and cracking of the frame, including mine. S=
ee the 0091, 2217, and 2218 images attached of other people's cars discovere=
d at a local club tech clinic. If you have this design, I recommend yo=
u check the frame cross member regularly. If you have the rear spring o=
ut for any reason, run the trailing arm through its full range of motion and=
you will probably see the top of the shock mount move front to rear.<br><br=
>After having my frame cracks welded, I built a new version of the single pl=
ate design available from some vendors. I extended the top mount for t=
he shock back about two inches and added two braces. One is a length o=
f 1" angle iron that goes between the two shock mounts near the top of the b=
racket, just below the body to side to side stability. The other is th=
e more important addition and goes from the top of the shock bracket rearwar=
d to the frame at about a 45 deg angle. This one stops any front to re=
ar motion of the shock bracket. Unfortunately the car isn't easily acc=
essible right now and I can't find my pictures.<br><br>Below is an item I wr=
ote 20 years ago or so. The 5-6025 kit is the single plate design that=
in my opinion needs at least the added bracket from the top of the shock mo=
unt to the frame.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><h2 align=3D"center" style=3D"te=
xt-align:center"><span style=3D"color:black">Tube Shock Conversion Notes<o:p=
></o:p></span></h2><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Notes o=
n my TR6 tube shock conversion:</span> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D"colo=
r:black">> Would like to know if anybody on the list has any knowledge or=
experience with<br>> the shock conversion kit that v.b. sells as part #&=
nbsp; 5-6025. It is listed on<br>> page 11 in the summer catalog.......<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;=
text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">I put similar brackets on my car. They are the easiest d=
esign to fit, taking about 30 minutes to install. I purchased my brack=
ets from someone who made them for his car for $40. I bought the shock=
s from Pep Boys for $12.95 each. The VB shocks must be pretty good to c=
ommand the $189 price tag. My driving can often be aggressive, especia=
lly at autocross events (2nd place in class at the Moss festival and first o=
verall at Triumphest in 1998). The cheap shock seem to work fine for m=
e in the rear, though I may just not know any better. The PO put Koni'=
s on the front.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: n=
ormal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">Installation made a tremendous improvement in my car, but that=
's because my lever shocks were dead. I've heard lots of good things a=
bout the heavy duty rebuilds to the lever shocks. Doing it again, I'd g=
ive this serious thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-varia=
nt-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-wi=
dth:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">Disadvantages of this design:<br>- When the car is in the air,=
the limit stop for the trailing arm travel is the tube shock. I had a=
shock fail after only a year (exchanged for free replacement). I thin=
k the other one may also need replacement, as there's oil on the tube. =
This tension is transferred through the shock to the bracket, at a slight a=
ngle, torquing the frame cross member that holds the shocks and rear differe=
ntial mounts. I mention this because I just discovered several broken w=
elds including both rear differential mounts and the crossemember to frame c=
onnection near the right shock mount. The car had the differential rei=
nforcing brackets installed for the DPO. I don't know if the shock con=
version caused this, but I think it aggravated the problem. (Any comme=
nts on this from others?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-varia=
nt-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-wi=
dth:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">- You are limited in tire width to 205 series tires, which may=
rub the bracket if you have lots of camber or weak springs.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:sta=
rt;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">Safety considerations:<br>- The Gabrial shocks I purchased onl=
y have a single nut on each end of the shock. The guy I got the brackets thr=
ough had a shock come undone. Your shocks should be double nutted.&nbs=
p; I used a nylocs because I had a box of them, but any nut should work.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;te=
xt-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">- Check the tires and brackets for rubbing. I have a lit=
tle bit on the right side recently, but nothing I'm concerned about. I=
can't see any indication on the tire, just some rubber dust on the bracket.=
I run 205/65 tires and will adjust the camber on the right tire.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;tex=
t-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">If your into welding, you can make your own brackets looking a=
t the picture. Drop me an e-mail and I'll look up the shock number aga=
in. It's off 50's Studebakers and Cadillacs if I remember correctly.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;=
text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">The Moss kit is an effort to install. It has three trian=
gular brackets per side. One to the standard shock mount, the second i=
nside the body by the fuel tank, and the third in the wheel well area. =
The first step in the instructions was to remove the fuel tank.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p style=3D"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align=
:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">I'd always avoid a shock that only bolts to the body. Th=
e dampening forces need to go to the frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D=
"normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-web=
kit-text-stroke-width:
0px;text-decoration-thickness: initial;text-decoration-style:
initial;text-decoration-color: initial;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D=
"color:black">Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 12/=
6/2020 8:34 AM, Will Daehler wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D=
"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">When going ove=
r bumps in my TR4 I have quite a rattle from the right rear area of my car.&=
nbsp; I have poked around by the axle, and thought I have fixed the problem a=
couple of times. I have replaced the springs and refilled the Armstro=
ng shocks. I have poked around. While looking through my Moss catalog I=
noticed the kits for replacing the Armstrong shocks with these brackets tha=
t you could mount shock absorbers to. But the kits are NLS. No Longer S=
upplied. I was wondering why the kits were discontinued. I=
t could have been that they caused damage to the frame, or just didn=E2=80=99=
t work. I was hoping somebody had any first-hand knowledge or experien=
ce on this topic that they could discuss. I wonder if the racing group all h=
ave custom and proprietary set ups.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Will Daehler<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">63 TR4 <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><o=
:p></o:p></p><pre>** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@aut=
ox.team.net</a> **<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tr=
iumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a href=3D"http://w=
ww.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o=
:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/triumphs/bk13@earthlink.net">http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/options/triumphs/bk13@earthlink.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><span>** triumphs@autox.team.ne=
t **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htm=
l</span><br><span>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http=
://www.team.net/archive</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage:=
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dconnitt@fuse.net</span><br>=
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail-2611B865-2814-46B5-BF8D-B1A5C820B4E0--
--===============4982180950888870810==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
--===============4982180950888870810==--
|