--===============2933473180916987657==
boundary="----=_Part_257205_332261201.1597164431557"
------=_Part_257205_332261201.1597164431557
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many, many, many years ago I mounted an electric pump on the side of the e=
ngine block using one of the mechanical pump mounting studs.=C2=A0 It worke=
d flawlessly for more than 20 years (still works).=C2=A0 At some point I so=
urced an impact switch from a salvage yard and wired the pump thorough that=
just for safety purposes.=C2=A0=20
Recently I relocated that pump to the spare tyre well (I have a space-saver=
so there's lots of room) using two levels of isolation to reduce the noise=
.=C2=A0 Still works great.=C2=A0 I never had any issue with that pump pulli=
ng gas when mounted to the engine block.
=20
Dave=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: staffel <staffel@comcast.net>
To: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1@comcast.net>; Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 11:30 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod
Hello Greg: I put the electric pump right on the top of the frame below whe=
re the original pump was, for ease of access. On some Brit cars. The elec p=
umps are in the trunk (Jaguars), under the frame by the rear wheel (Jensen =
GTs). Ever have to replace an SU pump=C2=A0 along side the highway in a rai=
nstorm. Those days are over for me.
Hi Ed: GOOD COMMENT; In my case it was NOT the brass acorn.=C2=A0 And to re=
place that acorn, due to the curvature of the original steel pipe, meant a =
total fabrication of the pipe, as replacing the acorn was impossible as the=
brass Male nut could not be removed.
Thanks Gents! A modern electric pump, located where easily checked, wired t=
o the distributor + and ground makes checking or replacing the pump an easy=
job in the future. My TR4 was my daily driver from 1969 thru the mid 1980s=
, from Oklahoma to=C2=A0 upstate NY, in the Mid Atlantic & in New Mexico. P=
roper replacement parts, made in the UK or US were much more dependable the=
n.I am still running a Mallory dual point ignition distributor after poorly=
manufactured Lucas points frustrated me for months: cam too small, slot to=
o small, hole in points where points 'sit on breaker plate's too small so p=
oints set wobbled - giving intermittent spark.=C2=A0
Even the basic things one has to inspect for proper manufacturing these day=
s.
Looking forward=C2=A0 to having my TR fully roadworthy again!Sherman=C2=A0
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1@comcast.net> =
Date: 8/11/20 7:01 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com>, staffe=
l <staffel@comcast.net> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net> Subject: Re:=
[TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod=20
And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not=
the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the repla=
cements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one tim=
e there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.=C2=A0 =
=20
Ed Woods =20
On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com> wrote: =20
=20
Just a couple random thoughts here.=C2=A0 One, I could not figure out fr=
om your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.=C2=A0=
My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like =
to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back,=
that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.=C2=A0 You seem so=
mewhat concerned about originality.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =20
Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too h=
ard to fit.=C2=A0 There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my T=
R ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have be=
en fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years). =
=20
Good Luck =20
Greg Lemon TR250=20
=20
=20
=20
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel < staffel@comcast.net> wrote:=20
=20
=20
Several years ago on an evening=C2=A0 club drive in the Catoctin Mts of=
Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark & s=
tarted to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flo=
w clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a=
Motel. =20
Next morning, still raining,=C2=A0 the issue was apparent: in the bottom=
of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.=C2=A0 Cleaned the bowl & nu=
rsed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club frien=
d came by and got his trailer & towed me home. =20
Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls.=
So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'. =20
Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, =
so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.=C2=A0 =20
A few months later got everything back together.=C2=A0 The engine starte=
d right up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fue=
l feed of the original=C2=A0 curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe=
dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.=C2=A0 =20
Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph=C2=A0 Male pipe 'nut' and =
the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread misma=
tch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.=C2=A0 =20
So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and i=
nstall an electric pump, ala=C2=A0Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus =
907). =20
Well, I installed a couple of=C2=A0 different new electric=C2=A0 pumps=
=C2=A0 adjacent to the mechanical pump. =20
They would never 'self prime'.=C2=A0 =20
Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is l=
ess than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original=
input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.=C2=A0 =20
So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the ne=
w fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump=C2=A0 right on the frame. This=
allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to m=
atch the new location of the electric pump. =20
Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality=
) to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the Water pump. The=
original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and=
forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the en=
gine & then across to the carburetor feeds. =20
Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue. =20
I=C2=A0 wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufactur=
ing glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadwor=
thy status. =20
Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. =
At least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), J=
ensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the=
engine.=C2=A0 =20
Sherman D Taffel=C2=A0 Columbia MD and Goldvein VA=C2=A0 65 TR4 CT 5=
0054L ( per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA) =20
=20
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphon=
e =20
=20
=20
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphon=
e =20
** triumphs@autox.team.net **=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=C2=A0 http://www.team.net/a=
rchive=20
=20
mail.com=20
=20
** triumphs@autox.team.net **=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive=
=20
=20
comcast.net=20
=20
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
sey@cs.com
------=_Part_257205_332261201.1597164431557
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<div style="color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size="3">Many, many, many years ago I mounted an electric pump on
the side of the engine block using one of the mechanical pump mounting
studs. It worked flawlessly for more than 20 years (still works).
At some point I sourced an impact switch from a salvage yard and wired the pump
thorough that just for safety purposes. <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3">Recently I relocated that pump to the spare tyre well (I
have a space-saver so there's lots of room) using two levels of isolation to
reduce the noise. Still works great. I never had any issue with
that pump pulling gas when mounted to the engine block.</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style="clear:both"><font size="4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: staffel <staffel@comcast.net><br>
To: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1@comcast.net>; Greg Lemon
<grglmn@gmail.com><br>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net><br>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 11:30 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv6108943626">
<div>
<div>Hello Greg: I put the electric pump right on the top of the frame below
where the original pump was, for ease of access. On some Brit cars. The elec
pumps are in the trunk (Jaguars), under the frame by the rear wheel (Jensen
GTs). Ever have to replace an SU pump along side the highway in a
rainstorm. Those days are over for me.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Hi Ed: GOOD COMMENT; In my case it was NOT the brass acorn. And to
replace that acorn, due to the curvature of the original steel pipe, meant a
total fabrication of the pipe, as replacing the acorn was impossible as the
brass Male nut could not be removed.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Thanks Gents! A modern electric pump, located where easily checked, wired
to the distributor + and ground makes checking or replacing the pump an easy
job in the future. My TR4 was my daily driver from 1969 thru the mid 1980s,
from Oklahoma to upstate NY, in the Mid Atlantic & in New Mexico.
Proper replacement parts, made in the UK or US were much more dependable
then.</div>
<div>I am still running a Mallory dual point ignition distributor after poorly
manufactured Lucas points frustrated me for months: cam too small, slot too
small, hole in points where points 'sit on breaker plate's too small so points
set wobbled - giving intermittent spark. </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Even the basic things one has to inspect for proper manufacturing these
days.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>Looking forward to having my TR fully roadworthy again!</div>
<div>Sherman </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div id="yiv6108943626composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an
AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="yiv6108943626yqt9522597386" id="yiv6108943626yqt27967">
<div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000;">
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1@comcast.net> </div>
<div>Date: 8/11/20 7:01 AM (GMT-05:00) </div>
<div>To: Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com>, staffel
<staffel@comcast.net> </div>
<div>Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial,
sans-serif;color:#333333;">
And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not
the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the
replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one
time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.
</div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial,
sans-serif;color:#333333;">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial,
sans-serif;color:#333333;">
Ed Woods
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com> wrote:
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
Just a couple random thoughts here. One, I could not figure out from
your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump. My
understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to pull,
MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back, that would
be a good place for the new TR electric pump. You seem somewhat concerned
about originality.
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too
hard to fit. There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR
ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have been
fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years).
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
Good Luck
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
Greg Lemon
</div>
<div>
TR250
<br clear="none">
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv6108943626gmail_quote">
<div class="yiv6108943626gmail_attr" dir="ltr">
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel <
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:staffel@comcast.net";
target="_blank" href="mailto:staffel@comcast.net";>staffel@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:
<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Several years ago on an
evening club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryland my TR4 developed
running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark & started to rain. Could not
drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms.
Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a Motel.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Next morning, still
raining, the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the Glass fuel bowl- a
pile of 'rust dust'. Cleaned the bowl & nursed the car home 30 miles,
but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and got his trailer
& towed me home.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Further examination determined
sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much for the fuel pump 'screen'
being 'effective'.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Also examination of the fuel pump
(original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the carbs, ordered a
new pump from TRF. </span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">A few months later got everything
back together. The engine started right up & ran fine. But no matter
how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed of the original curved pipe
inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't
stop. </span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Magnifying glass exam of the
original Triumph Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of the new
TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not
Metric either. </span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">So after talking with TRF, I
decided to forget the mechanical pump and install an electric pump,
ala Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907).</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Well, I installed a couple
of different new electric pumps adjacent to the mechanical
pump.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">They would never 'self
prime'. </span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Now, returning to the project. I
removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED the tank of the old fuel. It seems
that the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 full requires the elec
pump to be very low ( like the original input height of the original pump, to
receive fuel. </span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">So I am redetailing the frame
(cleaning & new paint) and securing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter
& elec pump right on the frame. This allows the steel feed line from
the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the new location of the electric
pump.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Next will be modifying a new
copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) to meet the elec pump feed right
behind & adjacent to the Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the
back of the mechanical pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the
cylinder head level to the front of the engine & then across to the
carburetor feeds.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Finally hope this resolves the
fuel delivery issue.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">I wanted to share a warning
about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So others can not waste years
getting their TRs back to Roadworthy status.</span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Obviously not going to drive a
car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike
Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust
Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine. </span>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
</div>
<div>
Sherman D Taffel
</div>
<div>
Columbia MD and Goldvein VA
</div>
<div>
65 TR4 CT 50054L
</div>
<div>
( per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA)
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv6108943626m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
</div>
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv6108943626m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
</div>
</div>
<div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
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