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Interesting.=C2=A0 I wonder if one could order and "Italian" wire harness =
for an "American" car.
=20
Dave=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Macartney <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk>
To: bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com>
Cc: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>; triumphs@autox.team.net <triumphs@au=
tox.team.net>; fot@autox.team.net <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs
I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go wrong=
with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were built to=
a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so m=
any have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also pruden=
t to comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However=
, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for =
Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had =
12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that wa=
s used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of platin=
g. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=
=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magne=
ti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.
Jonmac
At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:Lord Uxbridge: =C2=A0=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir -=
I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9DDuke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir =
- so you have!=E2=80=9D
On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com> wrote:
I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. =C2=A0 Where mig=
ht the other be?Thx,Bill BTS30800L
Serenity Now......
On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, =
was designed to a budget.=C2=A0 These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fu=
ses.=C2=A0 As such some items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil.=
=C2=A0 And those things that are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be =
sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.=C2=A0 But the wi=
res were sized for the particular load.=C2=A0 A thinner wire will have a ni=
gher resistance and under=C2=A0 short-circuit conditions the current can be=
limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the current will cause =
enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.
Another factor against us is the age of the harness.=C2=A0 The connector co=
ntacts get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances.=C2=A0 Wire=
strands can fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in ove=
rheating under normal use.=C2=A0 The insulation gets stiff and cracks expos=
ing the wires within.=C2=A0 Lots of potential failure modes here.=C2=A0=20
Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of fu=
ses.=C2=A0 Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have =
their own fuses.=C2=A0 This means you can size the fuse more appropriately =
for the wire used to power that device.=C2=A0 Also the connectors used are =
water tight and don't corrode as quickly.=C2=A0 Also, they are, on the whol=
e, a lot younger and therefore retain more of their original integrety.
But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness may =
be a good investment.
=20
Dave=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com>
To: Tom Householder <trhouse@columbus.rr.com>
Cc: Triumphs@Autox.team.net daily digest <triumphs@autox.team.net>; FOT Lis=
t <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs
Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash.=
=C2=A0 I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section =
could melt.=20
Bill B
Serenity Now......
On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <trhouse@columbus.rr.com> wrot=
e:
=EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in th=
e looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?
Trying to answer a question asked of me.=20
Tom=20
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
ar@yahoo.com
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
sey@cs.com
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a=
rchive
artney@ukpips.org.uk
------=_Part_2186563_935007686.1593018915381
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Interesting. I wonder if one could order and "=
Italian" wire harness for an "American" car.</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: John Macartney <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk><br>
To: bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com><br>
Cc: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>; triumphs@autox.team.net <tr=
iumphs@autox.team.net>; fot@autox.team.net <fot@autox.team.net><br=
>
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"yiv2429413124">
<div>I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go =
wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were bui=
lt to a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as=
so many have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also p=
rudent to comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. Ho=
wever, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound=
for Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars=
had 12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating th=
at was used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of p=
lating. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=
=80=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Ma=
gneti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div>Jonmac<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv2429413124AppleMailSignature">At the Battle of Wa=
terloo, 1815:
<div>Lord Uxbridge: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=
=E2=80=9D</div>
<div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher =
<<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:notakitcar@yahoo.c=
om" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:notakitcar@yahoo.com";>notakitcar@yahoo=
.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
<div>I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. Wher=
e might the other be?
<div>Thx,</div>
<div>Bill B</div>
<div>TS30800L<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASS=
EY <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.=
com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com";>dave1massey@cs.co=
m</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car=
as a whole, was designed to a budget. These harnesses had three (cou=
nt 'em, 3) fuses. As such some items were unfused like the headlamps =
and the coil. And those things that are fused shared a fuse so the fu=
se had to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.&nbs=
p; But the wires were sized for the particular load. A thinner wire w=
ill have a nigher resistance and under short-circuit conditions the c=
urrent can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the curren=
t will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Another factor against us is the age of the harness.&=
nbsp; The connector contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal cir=
cumstances. Wire strands can fatigue and break within the insulation =
again resulting in overheating under normal use. The insulation gets =
stiff and cracks exposing the wires within. Lots of potential failure=
modes here. <br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Compare this design to those found in modern cars you=
will see dozens of fuses. Sure there are a lot more electrical items=
but most things have their own fuses. This means you can size the fu=
se more appropriately for the wire used to power that device. Also th=
e connectors used are water tight and don't corrode as quickly. Also,=
they are, on the whole, a lot younger and therefore retain more of their o=
riginal integrety.</font></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div><font size=3D"3">But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-d=
own a new harness may be a good investment.</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both;"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: bill beecher <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:notakitcar@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:notakitcar@yahoo.co=
m">notakitcar@yahoo.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
To: Tom Householder <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:trhouse@columbus.rr.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:trhouse@columbu=
s.rr.com">trhouse@columbus.rr.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Cc: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:Triumphs@Autox.tea=
m.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:Triumphs@Autox.team.net";>Triumphs@A=
utox.team.net</a> daily digest <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymail=
to=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:triu=
mphs@autox.team.net">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>>; FOT List <<a rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>><b=
r clear=3D"none">
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown b=
ehind the dash. I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, mo=
st any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On J=
un 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"r=
ect" ymailto=3D"mailto:trhouse@columbus.rr.com"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"m=
ailto:trhouse@columbus.rr.com">trhouse@columbus.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br cl=
ear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced =
and seen harness melt down in the looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever h=
ad an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Trying to =
answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Tom <b=
r clear=3D"none">** <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tr=
iumphs@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team=
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