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As usual, Jonmac's recollections are gold dust. I hoard every scrap!
(Thanks for 'em, John!)
Does anyone have an Italian TR2-3A wiring diagram? These must have existed
originally, yes John?
Rdgs,
Don
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:01 AM John Macartney <
John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk> wrote:
> I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go
> wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were b=
uilt to a
> budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so ma=
ny have.
> Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also prudent to
> comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However,
> it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for =
Italy and
> Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had 12 main
> fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that was used
> on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of plating.
> Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=99=
re planning on a
> new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magneti Marelli used to
> have a subsidiary that made them.
>
> Jonmac
>
> At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:
> Lord Uxbridge: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D
> Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. Where might =
the other
> be?
> Thx,
> Bill B
> TS30800L
>
> Serenity Now......
>
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, was
> designed to a budget. These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fuses. A=
s
> such some items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil. And those
> things that are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be sized to carry
> the current for everything on that circuit. But the wires were sized for
> the particular load. A thinner wire will have a nigher resistance and
> under short-circuit conditions the current can be limited to a level tha=
t
> will not blow the fuse but the current will cause enough heating to cause
> the insulation to melt.
>
> Another factor against us is the age of the harness. The connector
> contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances. Wire
> strands can fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in
> overheating under normal use. The insulation gets stiff and cracks
> exposing the wires within. Lots of potential failure modes here.
>
> Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of
> fuses. Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have
> their own fuses. This means you can size the fuse more appropriately for
> the wire used to power that device. Also the connectors used are water
> tight and don't corrode as quickly. Also, they are, on the whole, a lot
> younger and therefore retain more of their original integrety.
>
> But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness ma=
y
> be a good investment.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill beecher <notakitcar@yahoo.com>
> To: Tom Householder <trhouse@columbus.rr.com>
> Cc: Triumphs@Autox.team.net daily digest <triumphs@autox.team.net>; FOT
> List <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs
>
> Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash.
> I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section could
> melt.
> Bill B
>
> Serenity Now......
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <trhouse@columbus.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in =
the looms
> to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?
>
> Trying to answer a question asked of me.
>
> Tom
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">As usual, Jonmac's recollections are gold dust.=C2=A0 =
I hoard every scrap!=C2=A0 (Thanks for 'em, John!)<div><br></div><div>D=
oes anyone have an Italian TR2-3A wiring diagram?=C2=A0 These must have exi=
sted originally, yes John?</div><div><br></div><div>Rdgs,</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Don</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:01 AM John Macartney <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk";>John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"auto">I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that=
can go wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars =
were built to a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as=
long as so many have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave i=
s also prudent to comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US ma=
rket. However, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, ca=
rs bound for Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy s=
pec cars had 12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the pl=
ating that was used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another f=
orm of plating. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, i=
f you=E2=80=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original =
spec. Magneti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.<div><br></d=
iv><div>Jonmac<br><br><div id=3D"gmail-m_-4421259331991928085AppleMailSigna=
ture" dir=3D"ltr">At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxbridge: =C2=
=A0=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D</div><div>Duke =
of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div><div><br><=
/div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher <=
<a href=3D"mailto:notakitcar@yahoo.com"; target=3D"_blank">notakitcar@yahoo.=
com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. =C2=A0 Where mig=
ht the other be?<div>Thx,</div><div>Bill B</div><div>TS30800L<br><br><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 24, 2020, at=
9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY <<a href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com"; target=3D"=
_blank">dave1massey@cs.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car=
as a whole, was designed to a budget.=C2=A0 These harnesses had three (cou=
nt 'em, 3) fuses.=C2=A0 As such some items were unfused like the headla=
mps and the coil.=C2=A0 And those things that are fused shared a fuse so th=
e fuse had to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.=
=C2=A0 But the wires were sized for the particular load.=C2=A0 A thinner wi=
re will have a nigher resistance and under=C2=A0 short-circuit conditions t=
he current can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the cu=
rrent will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></di=
v>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Another factor against us is the age of the harness.=
=C2=A0 The connector contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal ci=
rcumstances.=C2=A0 Wire strands can fatigue and break within the insulation=
again resulting in overheating under normal use.=C2=A0 The insulation gets=
stiff and cracks exposing the wires within.=C2=A0 Lots of potential failur=
e modes here.=C2=A0 <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"3">Compare this design to those found in modern cars you=
will see dozens of fuses.=C2=A0 Sure there are a lot more electrical items=
but most things have their own fuses.=C2=A0 This means you can size the fu=
se more appropriately for the wire used to power that device.=C2=A0 Also th=
e connectors used are water tight and don't corrode as quickly.=C2=A0 A=
lso, they are, on the whole, a lot younger and therefore retain more of the=
ir original integrety.</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size=3D"3">But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-d=
own a new harness may be a good investment.</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: bill beecher <<a href=3D"mailto:notakitcar@yahoo.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">notakitcar@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: Tom Householder <<a href=3D"mailto:trhouse@columbus.rr.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">trhouse@columbus.rr.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:Triumphs@Autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Triumphs@A=
utox.team.net</a> daily digest <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>>; FOT List <<a href=
=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>>=
<br>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown b=
ehind the dash.=C2=A0 I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, mo=
st any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On J=
un 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mail=
to:trhouse@columbus.rr.com" target=3D"_blank">trhouse@columbus.rr.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFOver the years I ha=
ve experienced and seen harness melt down in the looms to the tail lights .=
. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"n=
one">Trying to answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">Tom <br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:triump=
hs@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.=
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