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Here=E2=80=99s another possibility but the spring tabs may not fit. I =
didn=E2=80=99t look through their entire catalog so you might find =
something.
https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-6042-85860.aspx?origin=3Dkeyword=20
=20
Alex Thomson
=E2=80=9973 TR6
=E2=80=9971 GT6
=20
From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of =
Brian Kemp
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:15 AM
To: Roger Elliott; triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
=20
I seem to remember once upon a time, somebody made a light socket with a =
ground wire or a ground tab. I looked a few months ago for my GT6, but =
couldn't find it at the usual vendors. I imagine you could add a ground =
wire, but some of my sockets are pretty bad, so I was looking for new =
ones that already had the wire.
On my TR6, I did have a socket that didn't conduct well to ground. The =
problem was the connection between the metal base and the metal fingers. =
I just hit the area with a wire brush in the Dremel then soldered the =
two bits together and it fixed that problem.
Brian
On 11/12/2019 2:38 PM, Roger Elliott wrote:
I decided to give up on the issue. =20
There did not seem to be much of a voltage drop across the battery - =
about .05 volts as near as I could make out. It's possible that either =
the meter or myself were not quick enough to read accurately.
As far as I could tell there is not a ground terminal on the sockets. =
There was about .009 volts between the lamp housing and the battery. I =
did run additional wires from the lamp housing to a ground (to the tank =
mounting bolts).
The brake/tail lights still varied with the turn signals, in opposition, =
got brighter when the turn signals were off.
Tested the lights with regular brake lights instead of LEDs. I noticed =
the brake/tail lights still varied with the turn signals. This is when =
I decided to give up and just live with it.
Oh, the third brake light that I have wired in - power from the brake =
lights and grounded to the body flash when ever the brake lights and =
turn signals are on (like the brake/tail lights in opposition.
Thanks for your help.
Roger
On 11/3/2019 4:37 PM, Randall wrote:
Yes, that=E2=80=99s the idea. You want all the lights on (including =
turn signals) during this test.
=20
What you=E2=80=99re looking at is how much voltage drop there is through =
the ground path.
=20
-- Randall
=20
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM
To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
=20
HI Randall,
Thanks for the information and the tests.
I just want to check something on the tests since my electrical trouble =
shooting ability is very limited.
This section is also done with the lights on, right?: =20
To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the negative =
battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can connect the =
ground lead of your DMM to that. Then you can probe at the rear lights, =
to see how well they are actually grounded. 0.2 volt is probably =
acceptable, anything more than that represents a problem that could be =
fixed.
=20
Thanks,
Roger
=20
On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall wrote:
There may not be a good solution, Roger. The incandescent turn signals =
draw a fair amount of current, which is likely more than the stock =
alternator can deliver (along with tail lights and so on) at idle. So =
it may be that the battery voltage is dropping from 13+ volts =
(alternator supplying all power to car) to 12.6 volts (battery =
supplying some of the power) and the LEDs you=E2=80=99re using are =
sensitive enough to show the difference in voltage.
=20
To check, connect a good voltmeter or DMM to the battery, then watch =
what it does when the tail lights and flashers are both on. If =
I=E2=80=99m right, you=E2=80=99ll see the battery voltage sag in time =
with the turn signals. The only fix would be to convert to a more =
modern alternator, that can keep up with the lights at idle. =
(I=E2=80=99m not certain, but I think there is a Lester unit that would =
look and fit the same as the stock Lucas but give more current across =
the board. Check with the Jaguar folks.)
=20
Another fix might be LEDs that use an active current source (so are much =
less sensitive to supply voltage), but I have no idea where to buy such =
things. I made my own using a simple 2-transistor active current =
limiter.
=20
To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the negative =
battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can connect the =
ground lead of your DMM to that. Then you can probe at the rear lights, =
to see how well they are actually grounded. 0.2 volt is probably =
acceptable, anything more than that represents a problem that could be =
fixed.
=20
I=E2=80=99m not sure how the TR250 tail lights are wired. On my TR3, =
all the rear lamps ground only through their mounting screws, which go =
into clip nuts fastened to the sheet metal. Very insecure, especially =
if the sheet metal has a fresh coat of paint. =20
=20
However, each lamp has a terminal inside the housing for a ground wire. =
So, I made up a ground wire that daisy-chains across all the rear lamp =
holders, then leads around the trunk to one of the fuel tank mounting =
bolts.
=20
-- Randall
=20
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM
To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
=20
Here's the problem. When the tail lights are on and I use the flasher,=20
the tail/brake lights flicker with the flasher. They don't go on and=20
off but the get brighter and dimmer. When the third brake light is=20
hooked up it does the same thing.
=20
=20
=20
** triumphs@autox.team.net **
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/bk13@earthlink.net
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Here=E2=80=99s another =
possibility but the spring tabs may not fit. I didn=E2=80=99t look =
through their entire catalog so you might find =
something.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-6042-85860.aspx?origin=3Dkeyword=
">https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-6042-85860.aspx?origin=3Dkeyword</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alex =
Thomson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9973 =
TR6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9971 =
GT6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext'> Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Brian Kemp<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:15 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Roger Elliott; =
triumphs@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light =
problem<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I seem to remember once upon a time, =
somebody made a light socket with a ground wire or a ground tab. I =
looked a few months ago for my GT6, but couldn't find it at the usual =
vendors. I imagine you could add a ground wire, but some of my =
sockets are pretty bad, so I was looking for new ones that already had =
the wire.<br><br>On my TR6, I did have a socket that didn't conduct well =
to ground. The problem was the connection between the metal base =
and the metal fingers. I just hit the area with a wire brush in =
the Dremel then soldered the two bits together and it fixed that =
problem.<br><br>Brian<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
11/12/2019 2:38 PM, Roger Elliott wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p>I decided to give up =
on the issue. <o:p></o:p></p><p>There did not seem to be much of a =
voltage drop across the battery - about .05 volts as near as I could =
make out. It's possible that either the meter or myself were not =
quick enough to read accurately.<o:p></o:p></p><p>As far as I could tell =
there is not a ground terminal on the sockets. There was about =
.009 volts between the lamp housing and the battery. I did run =
additional wires from the lamp housing to a ground (to the tank mounting =
bolts).<o:p></o:p></p><p>The brake/tail lights still varied with the =
turn signals, in opposition, got brighter when the turn signals were =
off.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Tested the lights with regular brake lights =
instead of LEDs. I noticed the brake/tail lights still varied with the =
turn signals. This is when I decided to give up and just live with =
it.<o:p></o:p></p><p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Oh, the third brake =
light that I have wired in - power from the brake lights and grounded to =
the body flash when ever the brake lights and turn signals are on (like =
the brake/tail lights in opposition.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Thanks for your =
help.<br>Roger<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 11/3/2019 4:37 =
PM, Randall wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, =
that=E2=80=99s the idea. You want all the lights on (including =
turn signals) during this test.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>What =
you=E2=80=99re looking at is how much voltage drop there is through the =
ground path.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-- Randall<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From: </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:elliottr@rmi.net";>Roger Elliott</a><br><b>Sent: =
</b>Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM<br><b>To: </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br><b=
>Subject: </b>Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light =
problem<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>HI Randall,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks for the information and the =
tests.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I just =
want to check something on the tests since my electrical trouble =
shooting ability is very limited.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>This section is also done with the lights on, =
right?: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>To check =
for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the negative battery =
terminal or negative starter cable, so you can connect the ground lead =
of your DMM to that. Then you can probe at the rear lights, to see =
how well they are actually grounded. 0.2 volt is probably =
acceptable, anything more than that represents a problem that could be =
fixed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <br>Th=
anks,<br>Roger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>There may not be a good solution, Roger. The =
incandescent turn signals draw a fair amount of current, which is likely =
more than the stock alternator can deliver (along with tail lights and =
so on) at idle. So it may be that the battery voltage is dropping =
from 13+ volts (alternator supplying all power to car) to 12.6 =
volts (battery supplying some of the power) and the LEDs you=E2=80=99re =
using are sensitive enough to show the difference in =
voltage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>To check, connect a good voltmeter or DMM to the =
battery, then watch what it does when the tail lights and flashers are =
both on. If I=E2=80=99m right, you=E2=80=99ll see the battery =
voltage sag in time with the turn signals. The only fix would be =
to convert to a more modern alternator, that can keep up with the lights =
at idle. (I=E2=80=99m not certain, but I think there is a Lester =
unit that would look and fit the same as the stock Lucas but give more =
current across the board. Check with the Jaguar =
folks.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Another fix might be LEDs that use an active current =
source (so are much less sensitive to supply voltage), but I have no =
idea where to buy such things. I made my own using a simple =
2-transistor active current limiter.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>To check for =
grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the negative battery =
terminal or negative starter cable, so you can connect the ground lead =
of your DMM to that. Then you can probe at the rear lights, to see =
how well they are actually grounded. 0.2 volt is probably =
acceptable, anything more than that represents a problem that could be =
fixed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99m not sure how the TR250 tail lights are =
wired. On my TR3, all the rear lamps ground only through their =
mounting screws, which go into clip nuts fastened to the sheet =
metal. Very insecure, especially if the sheet metal has a fresh =
coat of paint. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>However, =
each lamp has a terminal inside the housing for a ground wire. So, =
I made up a ground wire that daisy-chains across all the rear lamp =
holders, then leads around the trunk to one of the fuel tank mounting =
bolts.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-- Randall<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From: </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:elliottr@rmi.net";>Roger Elliott</a><br><b>Sent: =
</b>Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM<br><b>To: </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br><b=
>Subject: </b>[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Here's the =
problem. When the tail lights are on and I use the flasher, =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>the tail/brake lights flicker with =
the flasher. They don't go on and <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>off but the get brighter and dimmer. When the =
third brake light is <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>hooked up it =
does the same thing.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;mar=
gin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>** <a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a> =
**<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archive</a><o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/bk13@earthlink.net=
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/bk13@earthlink.net</a><o=
:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
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