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gotta ask... as I've BTDT....
take a GOOD look at the socket itself.
on many, the metal body and the little tang that touches the bulb base
are NOT one piece of metal. Tarnish (read a bad connection) can result
where they are riveted/in contact with one another.
On mine, I ended up taking a small section of 22-24 GA multi-stranded wire
and made a loop that wrapped under/behind the tang, with the other
end wrapped around one of the fingers that wedge/plug it into the housing
to obtain a reliable ground. I've never has an issue since.
ptegler
On 11/12/2019 2:38 PM, Roger Elliott wrote:
>
> I decided to give up on the issue.
>
> There did not seem to be much of a voltage drop across the battery -
> about .05 volts as near as I could make out. It's possible that
> either the meter or myself were not quick enough to read accurately.
>
> As far as I could tell there is not a ground terminal on the sockets.Â
> There was about .009 volts between the lamp housing and the battery.Â
> I did run additional wires from the lamp housing to a ground (to the
> tank mounting bolts).
>
> The brake/tail lights still varied with the turn signals, in
> opposition, got brighter when the turn signals were off.
>
> Tested the lights with regular brake lights instead of LEDs. I noticed
> the brake/tail lights still varied with the turn signals. This is
> when I decided to give up and just live with it.
>
> Oh, the third brake light that I have wired in - power from the brake
> lights and grounded to the body flash when ever the brake lights and
> turn signals are on (like the brake/tail lights in opposition.
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Roger
>
> On 11/3/2019 4:37 PM, Randall wrote:
>>
>> Yes, thatâ??s the idea. You want all the lights on (including turn
>> signals) during this test.
>>
>> What youâ??re looking at is how much voltage drop there is through the
>> ground path.
>>
>> -- Randall
>>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
>>
>> HI Randall,
>>
>> Thanks for the information and the tests.
>>
>> I just want to check something on the tests since my electrical
>> trouble shooting ability is very limited.
>>
>> This section is also done with the lights on, right?:
>>
>> To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the
>> negative battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can
>> connect the ground lead of your DMM to that. Then you can probe at
>> the rear lights, to see how well they are actually grounded. 0.2
>> volt is probably acceptable, anything more than that represents a
>> problem that could be fixed.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>>
>> On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall wrote:
>>
>> There may not be a good solution, Roger. The incandescent turn
>> signals draw a fair amount of current, which is likely more than
>> the stock alternator can deliver (along with tail lights and so
>> on) at idle. So it may be that the battery voltage is dropping
>> from 13+ volts (alternator supplying all power to car) to 12.6
>> volts (battery supplying some of the power) and the LEDs youâ??re
>> using are sensitive enough to show the difference in voltage.
>>
>> To check, connect a good voltmeter or DMM to the battery, then
>> watch what it does when the tail lights and flashers are both
>> on. If Iâ??m right, youâ??ll see the battery voltage sag in time
>> with the turn signals. The only fix would be to convert to a more
>> modern alternator, that can keep up with the lights at idle. (Iâ??m
>> not certain, but I think there is a Lester unit that would look
>> and fit the same as the stock Lucas but give more current across
>> the board. Check with the Jaguar folks.)
>>
>> Another fix might be LEDs that use an active current source (so
>> are much less sensitive to supply voltage), but I have no idea
>> where to buy such things. I made my own using a simple
>> 2-transistor active current limiter.
>>
>> To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the
>> negative battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can
>> connect the ground lead of your DMM to that. Then you can probe
>> at the rear lights, to see how well they are actually grounded.Â
>> 0.2 volt is probably acceptable, anything more than that
>> represents a problem that could be fixed.
>>
>> Iâ??m not sure how the TR250 tail lights are wired. On my TR3, all
>> the rear lamps ground only through their mounting screws, which
>> go into clip nuts fastened to the sheet metal. Very insecure,
>> especially if the sheet metal has a fresh coat of paint.
>>
>> However, each lamp has a terminal inside the housing for a ground
>> wire. So, I made up a ground wire that daisy-chains across all
>> the rear lamp holders, then leads around the trunk to one of the
>> fuel tank mounting bolts.
>>
>> -- Randall
>>
>> *Sent: *Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM
>> *Subject: *[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
>>
>> Here's the problem. When the tail lights are on and I use the
>> flasher,
>>
>> the tail/brake lights flicker with the flasher. They don't go on
>> and
>>
>> off but the get brighter and dimmer. When the third brake light is
>>
>> hooked up it does the same thing.
>>
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@verizon.net
--
Paul Tegler
ptegler@verizon.net www.teglerizer.com
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<p>gotta ask... as I've BTDT....   <br>
</p>
<p>take a GOOD look at the socket itself.<br>
on many, the metal body and the little tang that touches the bulb
base <br>
are NOT one piece of metal. Tarnish (read a bad connection) can
result <br>
where they are riveted/in contact with one another.</p>
<p>On mine, I ended up taking a small section of 22-24 GA
multi-stranded wire <br>
and made a loop that wrapped under/behind the tang, with the other<br>
end wrapped around one of the fingers that wedge/plug it into the
housing<br>
to obtain a reliable ground. I've never has an issue since.<br>
</p>
<p>ptegler</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/12/2019 2:38 PM, Roger Elliott
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2cb3eba4-8d02-88ad-16d3-5a8502224c52@rmi.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>I decided to give up on the issue. <br>
</p>
<p>There did not seem to be much of a voltage drop across the
battery - about .05 volts as near as I could make out. It's
possible that either the meter or myself were not quick enough
to read accurately.<br>
</p>
<p>As far as I could tell there is not a ground terminal on the
sockets. There was about .009 volts between the lamp housing
and the battery. I did run additional wires from the lamp
housing to a ground (to the tank mounting bolts).<br>
</p>
<p>The brake/tail lights still varied with the turn signals, in
opposition, got brighter when the turn signals were off.<br>
</p>
<p>Tested the lights with regular brake lights instead of LEDs. I
noticed the brake/tail lights still varied with the turn
signals. This is when I decided to give up and just live with
it.<br>
</p>
<p>Oh, the third brake light that I have wired in - power from the
brake lights and grounded to the body flash when ever the brake
lights and turn signals are on (like the brake/tail lights in
opposition.<br>
<br>
</p>
<p>Thanks for your help.<br>
Roger<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/3/2019 4:37 PM, Randall wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:201911031737.1Irovm8t23PGoUj1@ibscan-princeton.atl.sa.earthlink.net">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, thatâ??s the idea. You want all the
lights on (including turn signals) during this test.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What youâ??re looking at is how much
voltage drop there is through the ground path.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- Randall<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div
style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:elliottr@rmi.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">Roger Elliott</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">HI Randall,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Thanks for the information
and the tests.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">I just want to check
something on the tests since my electrical trouble
shooting ability is very limited.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">This section is also done
with the lights on, right?:Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">To
check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the
negative battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you
can connect the ground lead of your DMM to that. Then you
can probe at the rear lights, to see how well they are
actually grounded. 0.2 volt is probably acceptable,
anything more than that represents a problem that could be
fixed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Â <br>
Thanks,<br>
Roger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">There may not be a good solution,
Roger. The incandescent turn signals draw a fair amount
of current, which is likely more than the stock alternator
can deliver (along with tail lights and so on) at idle.Â
So it may be that the battery voltage is dropping from 13+
volts (alternator supplying all power to car) to 12.6
volts (battery supplying some of the power) and the LEDs
youâ??re using are sensitive enough to show the difference
in voltage.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To check, connect a good voltmeter or
DMM to the battery, then watch what it does when the tail
lights and flashers are both on. If Iâ??m right, youâ??ll see
the battery voltage sag in time with the turn signals.Â
The only fix would be to convert to a more modern
alternator, that can keep up with the lights at idle.Â
(Iâ??m not certain, but I think there is a Lester unit that
would look and fit the same as the stock Lucas but give
more current across the board. Check with the Jaguar
folks.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another fix might be LEDs that use an
active current source (so are much less sensitive to
supply voltage), but I have no idea where to buy such
things. I made my own using a simple 2-transistor active
current limiter.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To check for grounding issues, I
suggest running a wire to the negative battery terminal or
negative starter cable, so you can connect the ground lead
of your DMM to that. Then you can probe at the rear
lights, to see how well they are actually grounded. 0.2
volt is probably acceptable, anything more than that
represents a problem that could be fixed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Iâ??m not sure how the TR250 tail lights
are wired. On my TR3, all the rear lamps ground only
through their mounting screws, which go into clip nuts
fastened to the sheet metal. Very insecure, especially if
the sheet metal has a fresh coat of paint. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, each lamp has a terminal
inside the housing for a ground wire. So, I made up a
ground wire that daisy-chains across all the rear lamp
holders, then leads around the trunk to one of the fuel
tank mounting bolts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- Randall<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:elliottr@rmi.net"; moz-do-not-send="true">Roger
Elliott</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here's the problem. When the tail
lights are on and I use the flasher, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">the tail/brake lights flicker with the
flasher. They don't go on and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">off but the get brighter and dimmer.Â
When the third brake light is <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">hooked up it does the same
thing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
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href="http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archive</a>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Paul Tegler
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ptegler@verizon.net";>ptegler@verizon.net</a> <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.teglerizer.com";>www.teglerizer.com</a></pre>
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