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Yes, tightening down the throttle linkage is a very delicate operation =
as in most times if you don=E2=80=99t hold down both throttles the mere =
tightening of the clamps increases the rpm. Learned that one the hard =
way even though it says it in the service manual. I also agree on the =
syncrometer. This is a good meter from Goodparts and measures the same =
suction with device on each carb. I routinely tweak the throttle a =
little bit to get each carb set in between tests.
Jim
=20
From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 7:35 AM
To: ptegler@verizon.net; trguy75@gmail.com; triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues
=20
=20
Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?
NOPE NADA STOP right there. Think about it...you're sealing off the =
air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the =
balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the =
fuel pull.
=20
What are you talking about? Sure you affect airflow with the airflow =
meter but you are affecting both carbs equally when you switch from carb =
to carb. If you get the same reading from both they are being effected =
the same and have the same starting point. The concept that the human =
ear is better than an instrument specifically designed to measure =
airflow is pure hubris.
=20
One thing to watch out for is assuming that since the carbs are balanced =
at idle they are balanced under throttle. Be very careful when =
tightening down the linkage to ensure that both carbs open =
simultaneously. This is particularly important on the TR6-style linkage =
that has built-in disengagement zones.
=20
=20
Dave Massey
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 3:16 am
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues
ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly' ?
Engine is not smooth?.. sputtering? not running smooth while cruising?
An old adage.... (well two actually)
"..most carb problems are electrical..." and "..most ignition problems =
are the carbs"
Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?
NOPE NADA STOP right there. Think about it...you're sealing off the =
air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the =
balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the =
fuel pull.
I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning =
more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel line as =
a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against the edge =
(not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me you can =
hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the =
fuel flow! Years ago I actually gave away my flow gauges.
Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to =
replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the =
same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke =
out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed =
throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC =
lists....still to no avail. Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy =
with an identical setup.... open big round K&Ns and a end plate but had =
his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape. In the end, the =
problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the =
piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.
hhmmm.... ok...
http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm
=20
ptegler
=20
=20
On 10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen wrote:
Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down. Finally got around to
getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture. After new kits, =
testing
piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and =
spending
two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture. The carbs aren't running
smoothly. There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala. Any
recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two to have them checked
professionally. =20
=20
Joe Curto?
Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a response from him.
Buy new (ouch)
Others? =20
=20
Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL
61 TR3A eager to enjoy driving it in fall in Florida
62 TR4 eager to have restoration finished
75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put in
82 Jeep ld reliable - get in and go
2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out and be used.
=20
=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@verizon.net
=20
=20
--=20
Paul Tegler
<http://www.teglerizer.com>=20
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, tightening down the throttle linkage is a very =
delicate operation as in most times if you don=E2=80=99t hold down both =
throttles the mere tightening of the clamps increases the rpm.=C2=A0 =
Learned that one the hard way even though it says it in the service =
manual.=C2=A0 I also agree on the syncrometer.=C2=A0 This is a good =
meter from Goodparts and measures the same suction with device on each =
carb.=C2=A0 I routinely tweak the throttle a little bit to get each carb =
set in between tests.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jim<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, =
October 16, 2018 7:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> ptegler@verizon.net; =
trguy75@gmail.com; triumphs@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] =
61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
2.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Ser=
iously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>NOPE NADA STOP right =
there. Think about it...you're sealing off the air to get =
the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the balance tube =
in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the fuel =
pull.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wha=
t are you talking about? Sure you affect airflow with the airflow =
meter but you are affecting both carbs equally when you switch from carb =
to carb. If you get the same reading from both they are being =
effected the same and have the same starting point. The concept =
that the human ear is better than an instrument specifically designed to =
measure airflow is pure hubris.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>One=
thing to watch out for is assuming that since the carbs are balanced at =
idle they are balanced under throttle. Be very careful when =
tightening down the linkage to ensure that both carbs open =
simultaneously. This is particularly important on the TR6-style =
linkage that has built-in disengagement =
zones.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Dav=
e Massey</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
--Original Message-----<br>From: Paul Tegler <<a =
href=3D"mailto:ptegler@verizon.net";>ptegler@verizon.net</a>><br>To: =
Jim Henningsen <<a =
href=3D"mailto:trguy75@gmail.com";>trguy75@gmail.com</a>>; triumphs =
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><b=
r>Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 3:16 am<br>Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 =
Carb Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_b3d72249-8701-4264-8a12-6cac1217176c"><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>ok.=
...what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly' =
?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Eng=
ine is not smooth?.. sputtering? not running smooth while =
cruising?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>An =
old adage.... (well two actually)<br>"..most carb problems are =
electrical..." and "..most ignition problems are the =
carbs"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Ser=
iously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>NOPE NADA STOP right =
there. Think about it...you're sealing off the air to get =
the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the balance tube =
in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the fuel =
pull.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning =
more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel =
line as a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against =
the edge (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me =
you can hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle =
of the fuel flow! Years ago I actually gave away my flow =
gauges.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Eon=
s ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to replace =
mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the same =
issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke out =
and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed throttle. =
Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC lists....still to =
no avail. Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy with an =
identical setup.... open big round K&Ns and a end plate but had his =
air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape. In the end, the =
problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the =
piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air =
filters.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>hhm=
mm.... ok...<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm";>http:/=
/www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>pte=
gler<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed =
down.=C2=A0 Finally got around to<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>getting carbs balanced and set for correct =
mixture.=C2=A0 After new kits, testing<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip =
(great clip), and spending<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.=C2=A0 =
The carbs aren't running<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>smoothly.=C2=A0 There is something not right and I =
am throwing in the towel.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for =
this in Ocala.=C2=A0 Any<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two =
to have them checked<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>professionally.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Joe Curto?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a =
response from him.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Buy new (ouch)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Others?=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Thanks in =
advance<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Jim =
Henningsen<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Ocala =
FL<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>61 TR3A=C2=A0 =
eager to enjoy driving it in fall in =
Florida<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>62 TR4 =
eager to have restoration finished<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put =
in<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>82 Jeep ld =
reliable - get in and go<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out and =
be used.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>** <a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a> =
**<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/triumphs</a> =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archive</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@verizon.ne=
t">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@verizon.net</a>=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>-- =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Paul =
Tegler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"mailto:ptegler@verizon.net";>ptegler@verizon.net</a> =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com";>www.teglerizer.com</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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