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I recall you initially had a problem with an incorrectly installed oil ring
(overlapped instead of end-to-end). Sure sounds like that again since leak
down and compression tests reveal nothing.
I have a hard time imagining valve guides could cause the massive blue
smoke you're seeing - but a failed oil ring sure could.
Geo
On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com> wrote:
> The mystery continues.
>
> First off my bad. It's clearly blue-ish smoke, not white. It's burning
> oil not water.
>
> So today I cleaned up the plugs and fired it up again to get it up to
> normal operating temperature, and the smoke was billowing down the street
> like police had been throwing out tear gas canisters. Your comment was if
> it lingers for a moment or three it's oil. This cloud is lingering for
> 10-20 plus seconds as it was rolling down the street.
>
> Got it warmed up and first did a leak down test. Rotated the engine to
> get each piston at the top of it's stroke with the values closed for
> ignition, then put 100 psi into each cylinder and 1, 3 and 4 held steady at
> 98psi. #2 held steady at 95psi. No issues uncovered.
>
> Next was a compression test. Engine still warm, throttle wide open, all
> four came up to 150 lbs plus 1-2 lbs. No issues uncovered.
>
> So our thoughts at this point is it can't be a head gasket if we're
> getting good compression numbers and good leak down test numbers.
>
> Additional info - When I bought this TR4a head for this rebuild, it had
> been serviced many years ago but never installed on an engine. The machine
> shop tore it down and installed new hardened valve seats and checked
> everything out - supposedly. I was told the valves, valve springs and
> valve guides were all good, but now we're thinking this whole thing could
> be related to bad valve guides.
>
> Not that this should matter, but I also installed a big bore kit so
> sleeves and pistons are all new.
>
> I expect the head will come off again but hope to zero in on the problem
> before dismantling it.
>
> Regards,
> Rye
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 07:46 PM, ptegler <ptegler@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> seconded...
> blue is 'burning' oil, not just super heated oil blowby which is
> usually white.
> If it dissipates almost immediately it's water, if it lingers for a moment
> or three.... its oil
>
> ptegler
>
> On 10/15/2015 10:51 AM, Brad Kahler wrote:
>
> Lots of white smoke doesn't always indicate water/coolant. On my TR4
> engine that had been freshly rebuilt when I bought it I had billowing
> clouds of white smoke. After several head gasket changes I finally
> realized that the new liners (liner & piston kit) had not been cross
> hatched so the rings didn't seat. This allowed for massive amounts of oil
> to be sucked up and out the exhaust. Result was white smoke.
>
> So the question is, were the cylinder liners cross hatched so the rings
> would seal?
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Chris Simo <ccsimonsen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is that water or oil? Lots of white smoke would indicate to me a blown
>> head gasket and water on the plugs.
>>
>> Did you replace the head gasket with a new one when you fixed the oil
>> ring? Probably not recommended, but I've reused them (1x) in the past,
>> but always painted them with the copper coat head gasket paint.
>>
>> I've blown head gaskets that leaked water into the pistons only -- no
>> water in the oil. But you may want to check your oil for contamination.
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
>
> --
> Paul Tegler ptegler@verizon.net www.teglerizer.com
>
>
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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--001a113fc4046bd6440522431006
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I recall you initially had a problem with an incorrec=
tly installed oil ring (overlapped instead of end-to-end).=C2=A0 Sure sound=
s like that again since leak down and compression tests reveal nothing.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>I have a hard time imagining valve guides could cause=
the massive blue smoke you're seeing - but a failed oil ring sure coul=
d.</div><div><br></div><div>Geo</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Rye Livingston <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:ryel@mac.com"; target=3D"_blank">ryel=
@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-s=
erif">The mystery continues.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"=
Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">First off my =
bad.=C2=A0 It's clearly blue-ish smoke, not white.=C2=A0 It's=C2=A0=
burning oil not water.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvet=
ica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SF=
NSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">So today I cleaned =
up the plugs and fired it up again to get it up to normal operating tempera=
ture, and the smoke was billowing down the street like police had been thro=
wing out tear gas canisters.=C2=A0 Your comment was if it lingers for a mom=
ent or three it's oil. This cloud is lingering for 10-20 plus seconds a=
s it was rolling down the street.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,&=
quot;Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">Got it w=
armed up and first did a leak down test.=C2=A0 Rotated the engine to get ea=
ch piston at the top of it's stroke with the values closed for ignition=
, then put 100 psi=C2=A0into each cylinder and 1, 3 and 4 held steady at 98=
psi.=C2=A0#2 held steady at 95psi.=C2=A0 No issues uncovered.</div><div sty=
le=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"=
><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",He=
lvetica,sans-serif">Next was a compression test.=C2=A0 Engine still warm,=
=C2=A0throttle wide open, all four came up to 150 lbs plus 1-2 lbs. No issu=
es uncovered.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue&=
quot;,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,&q=
uot;Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">So our thoughts at this poin=
t is it can't be a head gasket if we're getting good compression nu=
mbers and good leak down test numbers.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNST=
ext,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">A=
dditional info - When I bought this TR4a head for this rebuild, it had been=
serviced many years ago but never installed on an engine.=C2=A0 The machin=
e shop tore it down and installed new hardened valve seats and checked ever=
ything out - supposedly.=C2=A0 I was told the valves, valve springs and val=
ve guides were all good, but now we're thinking this whole thing could =
be related to bad valve guides.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,&qu=
ot;Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-=
family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">Not that t=
his should matter, but I also installed a big bore kit so sleeves and pisto=
ns are all new.</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neu=
e",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,=
"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">I expect the head will com=
e off again but hope to zero in on the problem before dismantling it.</div>=
<div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,san=
s-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue&=
quot;,Helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,</div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSTex=
t,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif">Rye</div><div style=3D"f=
ont-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></=
div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica=
,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSText,"Helvetica N=
eue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:SFNSTex=
t,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>On Oct 15, 2015, at =
07:46 PM, ptegler <<a href=3D"mailto:ptegler@verizon.net"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">ptegler@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly:SFNSText,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif"><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div>seconded...<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 blue is 'burning'=
; oil, not just super heated oil blowby which is usually white.<br>If it di=
ssipates almost immediately it's water, if it lingers for a moment or t=
hree.... its oil<br><br>ptegler<br><br><div>On 10/15/2015 10:51 AM, Brad Ka=
hler wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of whi=
te smoke doesn't always indicate water/coolant.=C2=A0 On my TR4 engine =
that had been freshly rebuilt when I bought it I had billowing clouds of wh=
ite smoke.=C2=A0 After several head gasket changes I finally realized that =
the new liners (liner & piston kit) had not been cross hatched so the r=
ings didn't seat.=C2=A0 This allowed for massive amounts of oil to be s=
ucked up and out the exhaust.=C2=A0 Result was white smoke.<div><br></div><=
div>So the question is, were the cylinder liners cross hatched so the rings=
would seal?</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Chris Simo=C2=A0<span dir=3D"ltr=
"><<a href=3D"mailto:ccsimonsen@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">ccsimonsen@=
gmail.com</a>></span>=C2=A0wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr">I=
s that water or oil? =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lots of white smoke would indicate to me =
a blown head gasket and water on the plugs.<div><br></div><div>Did you repl=
ace the head gasket with a new one when you fixed the oil ring? =C2=A0 Prob=
ably not recommended, but I've reused them (1x) =C2=A0in the past, but =
always painted them with the copper coat head gasket paint.<br><div><br></d=
iv><div>I've blown head gaskets that leaked water into the pistons only=
-- no water in the oil.=C2=A0 But you may want to check your oil for conta=
mination.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;pad=
ding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;bord=
er-left-style:solid"><br></blockquote></div></div></div><br><br><br></block=
quote></div><br></div></div></div><br><fieldset></fieldset><br><pre style=
=3D"white-space:pre-wrap!important">** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.tea=
m.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **
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</pre></blockquote><br><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div>=
--=C2=A0<br>Paul Tegler=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:ptegler@verizon.net"; target=
=3D"_blank">ptegler@verizon.net</a>=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">www.teglerizer.com</a></div></font></span></div></blo=
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