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--001a113f7a92a41885051f51650e
John, do you know what use the large brass plug was for on the early TR4
late TR3B engines?
I've never seen anything plumbed to that port.
Brad
On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:48 AM, John Macartney <john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk
> wrote:
> The wet liner four was used in:
>
> All TR models from TR2 to TR4A
> Triumph Renown
> Triumph Roadster
> All Standard Vanguards from 1948-1959/60 before being replaced by the 2
> litre six pot in the Vignale
> There was also a Vanguard diesel variant in the mid 50's for car, van and
> pick-up
> The Ferguson Tractor (in modified forms)
> Standard Ensign in 1.6 and 2.1 litre variants
> Leyland 15 and 20 revamps of the (ghastly) Standard Atlas van / pick-up /
> Minibus
> Rover SD1 made in India
> Morgan
> Swallow Doretti
> Warwick
>
> And as an industrial power unit for trailer compressors, concrete mixers,
> stand-by generators and pedestrian controlled road rollers - all of which
> were as normally aspirated diesels.
>
> Jonmac
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad
> Kahler
> Sent: 09 September 2015 14:02
> To: Dave <dave1massey@cs.com>
> Cc: Triumphs <Triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 road draft tube plug
>
> I forgot the TR3/4 engine was also used in a few other Triumph models.
> Maybe Andy Mace will chime in with his knowledge of the other Triumph
> models.
>
>
>
> dave1massey@cs.com> > wrote:
>
>
> Well, of course the upper part isn't sealed from the lower. The
> oil pumped to the rockers has to drain back down somehow. As was mentioned
> previously, it goes through the push rod tubes.
>
> My guess is that the cover is used in other applications
> (Vanguard?) and whatever it was for was not implemented on the TR. Not
> enough space under the hood.
>
>
> Dave Massey
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 road draft tube plug
>
>
> Alan,
>
> So much for the official Triumph documentation!
>
> Does anyone know why the real early TR4s (and I think late TR3Bs)
> had the brass plug in the top of the valve cover? I've never seen anything
> relating to that plug written anywhere.
>
> I don't think the bottom end can be completely sealed due to the
> openings for the push rods. When the switch was made to the "sealed"
> system the draft tube went away for good.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Alan Myers <amfoto1@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ... Then at
> engine number CT14234E through end of TR4
> production the
> cars had air
> filters with vent openings coming from a flame
> trap from the valve
> cover
> along with a "sealed" valve cover cap and no road
> draft tube. TR4As had
> a
> gulp valve with a vented (1/8" metered opening in
> the cap) valve cover
> cap
> and no road draft tube. This information was
> found in Service
> Bulletin
>
>
>
> I can tell you for certain that's incorrect. The change
> from open breathing to flame-trap, etc. came later than that.
>
> CT17791E (fitted to CT17602L, built in late October, 1962)
> originally had the vented cap and the road draft tube.
>
> The cap is the push on type, has big vents on the
> underside and filled with coarse "steel wool" to reduce oil spray, I'm
> sure.
>
> The road draft (or draught, I suppose) tube is large
> diameter, press fit into the side of the block and locked in place with two
> screws (maybe 1/4 or 5/16").
>
> The original valve cover has no vent, but it does have a
> large brass plug where one could be fitted.
>
> Never had a problem with oil out of the push on cap or an
> unusual amount of leaks.... but the road draft tube kept most of the
> underside of the car rust free!
>
> The car now has an aftermarket cast alu valve cover with a
> breather pipe and a low profile, twist-in filler cap (with a single, tiny
> breather hole).
>
> I've replaced the road draft tube, but didn't plug it. It
> now has a nipple for a 1/2" or larger hose fitting. I don't think it's a
> good idea to completely seal up the bottom end of the engine. It needs to
> be able to breathe, same as the top end.
>
> Car is not yet back on the road, but when it is the plan
> is to have a catch tank or can fitted with a breather cap, with hoses
> running from both the valve cover and the fitting at the draft tube.
>
> I intend to use a catch can similar to this:
> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jrc-555-6402
>
>
>
> Alan Myers
> San Jose Calif.
> '62 TR4 CT17602L
> http://www.triumphowners.com/to-car/tr4-14/
>
>
>
>
> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">John, do you know what use the large brass plug was for on=
the early TR4 late TR3B engines?=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I've never s=
een anything plumbed to that port.</div><div><br></div><div>Brad</div><div>=
<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:48 AM, John Macartney <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk"; target=3D"_blank">john.macartney@u=
kpips.org.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The we=
t liner four was used in:<br>
<br>
All TR models from TR2 to TR4A<br>
Triumph Renown<br>
Triumph Roadster<br>
All Standard Vanguards from 1948-1959/60 before being replaced by the 2 lit=
re six pot in the Vignale<br>
There was also a Vanguard diesel variant in the mid 50's for car, van a=
nd pick-up<br>
The Ferguson Tractor (in modified forms)<br>
Standard Ensign in 1.6 and 2.1 litre variants<br>
Leyland 15 and 20 revamps of the (ghastly) Standard Atlas van / pick-up / M=
inibus<br>
Rover SD1 made in India<br>
Morgan<br>
Swallow Doretti<br>
Warwick<br>
<br>
And as an industrial power unit for trailer compressors, concrete mixers, s=
tand-by generators and pedestrian controlled road rollers - all of which we=
re as normally aspirated diesels.<br>
<br>
Jonmac<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Triumphs [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net";>t=
riumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler<br>
Sent: 09 September 2015 14:02<br>
To: Dave <<a href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com";>dave1massey@cs.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
Cc: Triumphs <<a href=3D"mailto:Triumphs@autox.team.net";>Triumphs@autox.=
team.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 road draft tube plug<br>
<br>
I forgot the TR3/4 engine was also used in a few other Triumph models.=C2=
=A0 Maybe Andy Mace will chime in with his knowledge of the other Triumph m=
odels.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Dave <<a href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.=
com">dave1massey@cs.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com=
">dave1massey@cs.com</a>> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Well, of course the upper part isn't sealed=
from the lower.=C2=A0 The oil pumped to the rockers has to drain back down=
somehow.=C2=A0 As was mentioned previously, it goes through the push rod t=
ubes.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 My guess is that the cover is used in other app=
lications (Vanguard?) and whatever it was for was not implemented on the TR=
.=C2=A0 Not enough space under the hood.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dave Massey<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Brad Kahler <<a href=3D"mailto:bkahler=
1@gmail.com">bkahler1@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bkahler1@g=
mail.com">bkahler1@gmail.com</a>> ><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 road draft tube plug<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alan,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 So much for the official Triumph documentation!=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Does anyone know why the real early TR4s (and I=
think late TR3Bs) had the brass plug in the top of the valve cover?=C2=A0 =
I've never seen anything relating to that plug written anywhere.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I don't think the bottom end can be complet=
ely sealed due to the openings for the push rods.=C2=A0 When the switch was=
made to the "sealed" system the draft tube went away for good.<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Brad<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Alan Myers <=
<a href=3D"mailto:amfoto1@aol.com";>amfoto1@aol.com</a> <mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:amfoto1@aol.com";>amfoto1@aol.com</a>> > wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 ... Then at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 engine number CT14234E through end of TR4 production the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 cars had air<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 filters with vent openings coming from a flame trap from the val=
ve<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 cover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 along with a "sealed" valve cover cap and no road draf=
t tube.=C2=A0 TR4As had<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 gulp valve with a vented (1/8" metered opening in the cap) =
valve cover<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 cap<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 and no road draft tube.=C2=A0 This information was found in Serv=
ice<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Bulletin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I can tell you for =
certain that's incorrect. The change from open breathing to flame-trap,=
etc. came later than that.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 CT17791E (fitted to=
CT17602L, built in late October, 1962) originally had the vented cap and t=
he road draft tube.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The cap is the push=
on type, has big vents on the underside and filled with coarse=C2=A0 "=
;steel wool" to reduce oil spray, I'm sure.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The road draft (or =
draught, I suppose) tube is large diameter, press fit into the side of the =
block and locked in place with two screws (maybe 1/4 or 5/16").<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The original valve =
cover has no vent, but it does have a large brass plug where one could be f=
itted.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Never had a problem=
with oil out of the push on cap or an unusual amount of leaks.... but the =
road draft tube kept most of the underside of the car rust free!<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The car now has an =
aftermarket cast alu valve cover with a breather pipe and a low profile, tw=
ist-in filler cap (with a single, tiny breather hole).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I've replaced t=
he road draft tube, but didn't plug it. It now has a nipple for a 1/2&q=
uot; or larger hose fitting. I don't think it's a good idea to comp=
letely seal up the bottom end of the engine. It needs to be able to breathe=
, same as the top end.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Car is not yet back=
on the road, but when it is the plan is=C2=A0 to have a catch tank or can =
fitted with a breather cap, with hoses running from both the valve cover an=
d the fitting at the draft tube.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I intend to use a c=
atch can similar to this: <a href=3D"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jrc-=
555-6402" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.summitracing.com/=
parts/jrc-555-6402</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alan Myers<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 San Jose Calif.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 '62 TR4 CT17602=
L<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:a=
mfoto1@aol.com">amfoto1@aol.com</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:amfoto1@ao=
l.com">amfoto1@aol.com</a>><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://w=
ww.triumphowners.com/to-car/tr4-14/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.triumphowners.com/to-car/tr4-14/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/op=
tions/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>
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