--===============0704799808047922961==
boundary="----=_Part_1240719_482160760.1621425101782"
------=_Part_1240719_482160760.1621425101782
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I dunno.=C2=A0 I always heard that prop pilots were always cool.=C2=A0 The=
y screw their way across the country whereas jet pilots just suck and blow.
=20
Dave=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Innis <jdinnis@gmail.com>
To: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate@gmail.com>
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net <Shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2021 5:23 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mower blade orientaaion relative to piston
The whole propeller thing is really overstated.=C2=A0 It is just there to k=
eep the pilot cool.=C2=A0 If the propeller stops turning, the pilot often b=
egins sweating.=20
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 5:15 AM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate@gmail.com> wrote=
:
Not to mention that there are two magnetos.=C2=A0 You don't want your lawn =
mower quitting in mid-air.
On Tue, May 18, 2021, 23:15 Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Magnetos still power the vast majority of small aircraft piston engines;=20
they're a bit more complicated though. Mags in good nick will throw a=20
really hot spark; they're always 'hot' and the only way to disable them=20
is to ground the primary coil by a 'P lead.'
On 5/18/2021 8:03 PM, Thomas Coradeschi wrote:
> You=E2=80=99re almost certainly looking at a magneto ignition system in a=
ll of those small engines=E2=80=A6 Bog simple indeed!
>
> =E2=80=94
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora@icloud.com
>
>
>> On 18 May 2021, at 10:53 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> re: "... they are using iron mass of the blade as part of the inductance=
field to signal the position for coil firing ..."
>>
>> That was my guess, based on what they told me; the motor was otherwise i=
n good shape (how I managed to get it back together still amazes me). IIRC,=
it was a Tecumseh 5HP engine. The name of the shop was 'Knife Stalkers.'
>>
>> I'm looking into possibly rebuilding a couple chainsaw motors, the coil =
and 'points,' or whatever solid state switch they are using, are very simpl=
istic. There may be a magnet in the crank gear to trigger the spark. I use =
Pertronix in several cars and, except for one they have a cap on the distri=
butor cam with magnets to fire the electronic switch. Surprising to me, the=
one on my 4-cyl Austin-Healey doesn't use the cap, apparently the lobes on=
the distributor cam are sufficient to fire the Hall Effect sensor.
>>
>> bs
>>
>> On 5/18/2021 7:38 PM, old dirtbeard wrote:
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> I believe you, of course, but I have never heard this before.=C2=A0 I h=
ave a Craftsman 21" walk behind and I usually sharpen the blade and do main=
tenance this month, so I think I will see if the engine will fire with the =
blade removed for sharpening.
>>>
>>> For this to make sense to me, there would need to be some sensor on the=
blade, or they are using iron mass of the blade as part of the inductance =
field to signal the position for coil firing. The aluminum sump of the moto=
r protrudes through the steel deck of the mower, so I suppose it is possibl=
e. There is quite an air gap between the blade and the sump of the engine, =
however.
>>>
>>> You have me very curious and I will let you know if the mower will fire=
without the blade attached (if it does, I will not let it run as it is har=
d to predict what would happen without that flywheel attached to the cranks=
haft).
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> doug
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 5:35 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrot=
e:
>>> Possibly of some interest: I had a Craftsman walk-behind that quit runn=
ing suddenly. I tore the engine down, didn't find anything, then finally to=
ok it to a repair shop. They told me the blade had a crack in it that cause=
d the problem;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0supposedly th=
e blade is part of a timing loop that fires the spark. Sort of makes sense =
if you think of the blade as a flywheel with a position sensor on it.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On 5/18/2021 2:55 PM, Brian and Wendy Warrick wrote:
>>>> I run Snapper walk behind mowers and have never gave it a thought. I c=
an't see why it would matter. If it did, they would have designed the adapt=
er differently.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>> Nampa, ID
>>>>
>>>> From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Karl V=
acek <stearman809@gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 3:52 PM
>>>> To: 'shop-talk@autox.team.net' <Shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>>>> Subject: [Shop-talk] Mower blade orientaaion relative to piston
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>> Last time I sharpened my 21=E2=80=9D walk-behind mower blade I thought=
of something that=E2=80=99s never occurred to me, after using the same bra=
nd of mower for 25 years..
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>> On a Snapper, the blade can actually go on any way onto the square ada=
pter keyed to the crankshaft.=C2=A0 The mounting point is square, no pins, =
no longer side, nothing.
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>> One way would be aligned with the cylinder at TDC/BDC, and the other w=
ay would be across.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s been off many times and there=E2=80=
=99s no way to tell how it was mounted originally.=C2=A0 The manual is sile=
nt on this.
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>> Power stroke shouldn=E2=80=99t matter, but maybe some dynamic issue on=
e way or the other?
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/=
archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dir=
tbeard@gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjco=
ra@icloud.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspid=
ell@comcast.net
>
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
te@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
@gmail.com
--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_______________________________________________
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ive
ssey@cs.com
------=_Part_1240719_482160760.1621425101782
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">I dunno. I always heard that prop pilots were =
always cool. They screw their way across the country whereas jet pilo=
ts just suck and blow.</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John Innis <jdinnis@gmail.com><br>
To: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate@gmail.com><br>
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net <Shop-talk@autox.team.net><br>
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2021 5:23 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mower blade orientaaion relative to piston<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"yiv3426673979">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">The whole propeller thing is really overstated. It i=
s just there to keep the pilot cool. If the propeller stops turning, =
the pilot often begins sweating. <br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv3426673979gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv3426673979yqt9693682907" id=3D"yiv3426673979yqtfd02560">
<div class=3D"yiv3426673979gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, May 19, 2021 at =
5:15 AM Jeff Scarbrough <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:fishplate@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
mailto:fishplate@gmail.com";>fishplate@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"=
none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv3426673979gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"yiv3426673979yqt9693682907" id=3D"yiv3426673979yqtfd85478">
<div>Not to mention that there are two magnetos. You don't want your =
lawn mower quitting in mid-air.</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv3426673979gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv3426673979gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, May 18, 2021, 23=
:15 Bob Spidell <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:bs=
pidell@comcast.net">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><=
/div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv3426673979gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">Magnetos st=
ill power the vast majority of small aircraft piston engines; <br clear=3D"=
none">
they're a bit more complicated though. Mags in good nick will throw a <br c=
lear=3D"none">
really hot spark; they're always 'hot' and the only way to disable them <br=
clear=3D"none">
is to ground the primary coil by a 'P lead.'<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
On 5/18/2021 8:03 PM, Thomas Coradeschi wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
> You=E2=80=99re almost certainly looking at a magneto ignition system i=
n all of those small engines=E2=80=A6 Bog simple indeed!<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> =E2=80=94<br clear=3D"none">
> Tom Coradeschi<br clear=3D"none">
> <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mail=
to:tjcora@icloud.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:tjcora@icloud.com";>t=
jcora@icloud.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
>> On 18 May 2021, at 10:53 PM, Bob Spidell <<a rel=3D"nofollow no=
opener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net<=
/a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
>><br clear=3D"none">
>> re: "... they are using iron mass of the blade as part of the indu=
ctance field to signal the position for coil firing ..."<br clear=3D"none">
>><br clear=3D"none">
>> That was my guess, based on what they told me; the motor was other=
wise in good shape (how I managed to get it back together still amazes me).=
IIRC, it was a Tecumseh 5HP engine. The name of the shop was 'Knife Stalke=
rs.'<br clear=3D"none">
>><br clear=3D"none">
>> I'm looking into possibly rebuilding a couple chainsaw motors, the=
coil and 'points,' or whatever solid state switch they are using, are very=
simplistic. There may be a magnet in the crank gear to trigger the spark. =
I use Pertronix in several cars and, except for one they have a cap on the =
distributor cam with magnets to fire the electronic switch. Surprising to m=
e, the one on my 4-cyl Austin-Healey doesn't use the cap, apparently the lo=
bes on the distributor cam are sufficient to fire the Hall Effect sensor.<b=
r clear=3D"none">
>><br clear=3D"none">
>> bs<br clear=3D"none">
>><br clear=3D"none">
>> On 5/18/2021 7:38 PM, old dirtbeard wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
>>> Hi Bob,<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> I believe you, of course, but I have never heard this before.&=
nbsp; I have a Craftsman 21" walk behind and I usually sharpen the blade an=
d do maintenance this month, so I think I will see if the engine will fire =
with the blade removed for sharpening.<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> For this to make sense to me, there would need to be some sens=
or on the blade, or they are using iron mass of the blade as part of the in=
ductance field to signal the position for coil firing. The aluminum sump of=
the motor protrudes through the steel deck of the mower, so I suppose it i=
s possible. There is quite an air gap between the blade and the sump of the=
engine, however.<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> You have me very curious and I will let you know if the mower =
will fire without the blade attached (if it does, I will not let it run as =
it is hard to predict what would happen without that flywheel attached to t=
he crankshaft).<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> best,<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> doug<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 5:35 PM Bob Spidell <<a rel=3D"nofo=
llow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast=
.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comca=
st.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
>>> Possibly of some interest: I had a Craftsman walk-behind that =
quit running suddenly. I tore the engine down, didn't find anything, then f=
inally took it to a repair shop. They told me the blade had a crack in it t=
hat caused the problem; supp=
osedly the blade is part of a timing loop that fires the spark. Sort of mak=
es sense if you think of the blade as a flywheel with a position sensor on =
it.<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> Bob<br clear=3D"none">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> On 5/18/2021 2:55 PM, Brian and Wendy Warrick wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none">
>>>> I run Snapper walk behind mowers and have never gave it a =
thought. I can't see why it would matter. If it did, they would have design=
ed the adapter differently.<br clear=3D"none">
>>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Brian<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Nampa, ID<br clear=3D"none">
>>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>>> From: Shop-talk <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer=
" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net";>shop-talk-boun=
ces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of Karl Vacek <<a rel=3D"nofollow n=
oopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:stearman809@gmail.com"=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:stearman809@gmail.com";>stearman809@gmail.=
com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 3:52 PM<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> To: '<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:shop-talk@autox.team.net">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>' <<a rel=3D"n=
ofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net";>Sho=
p-talk@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Subject: [Shop-talk] Mower blade orientaaion relative to p=
iston<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> <br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Last time I sharpened my 21=E2=80=9D walk-behind mower bla=
de I thought of something that=E2=80=99s never occurred to me, after using =
the same brand of mower for 25 years..<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> <br clear=3D"none">
>>>> On a Snapper, the blade can actually go on any way onto th=
e square adapter keyed to the crankshaft. The mounting point is squar=
e, no pins, no longer side, nothing.<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> <br clear=3D"none">
>>>> One way would be aligned with the cylinder at TDC/BDC, and=
the other way would be across. It=E2=80=99s been off many times and =
there=E2=80=99s no way to tell how it was mounted originally. The man=
ual is silent on this.<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> <br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Power stroke shouldn=E2=80=99t matter, but maybe some dyna=
mic issue one way or the other?<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> <br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Thanks!<br clear=3D"none">
>>>> Karl<br clear=3D"none">
>>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> _______________________________________________<br clear=3D"no=
ne">
>>><br clear=3D"none">
>>> <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:Shop-=
talk@autox.team.net">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
>>> Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect"=
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=3D=3D<br clear=3D"none">=3D Never offend people with style when you &=
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