--===============6508626585957512981==
--0000000000002ec04c059506cfb1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, poor quality after-market parts can cause considerable grief. I
changed out my gearbox sprocket on a 1972 BSA B50SS to what was supposed to
be a high-quality after-market sprocket. The bike leaked gear lube from the
day I installed it.
I thought it was the seal or something else and and I tried numerous fixes
until I just took it back out again and put a mic on it to find that the
seal surface was so far out of round that it was not even being "shined" by
the seal all the way around.
Bit the bullet, found a high quality British-made sprocket for about 2X the
price of the first one, installed it and it has not leaked a drop since
then. I spent the better part of several days redoing a job that would not
have been necessary at all if I had a high-quality replacement part in
the first place.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of junk being sold out there. The money
saved by "rolling the dice" on this junk simply is not worth it for me
anymore. Additionally, if we do not pay the price for the high-quality
OEM-grade parts, they probably will cease to be produced and all we will
have left if the after-market junk that is causing us all a great deal of
grief.
I will not buy eBay junk anymore.
best,
doug
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 5:52 AM Doug Braun via Shop-talk <
shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> I agree, this certainly sounds like a problem with the reservoir shutoff
> valve not closing properly.
> If it were a problem with the main seals, a lot of fluif would have leake=
d
> out.
>
> I had the same problem develop in my Spitfire brake master cylinder. It
> turned out that the
> "tipping valve" (the shutoff valve for the forward half of the cylinder,
> was not seating properly.
> It was part of an aftermarket kit I had installed several years ago. I
> re-installed the original one
> (which I had kept), and the problem went away.
>
> The lesson: In many cases a new part in an aftermarket rebuild kit can be
> inferior to a used original
> part.
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 6:30 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Pat thank, but having inspected the master it appears to be such a
>> poorly made copy of a Girling I see nothing but trouble in the future.th=
e
>> piston does not slide smoothly in the bore leading me to think it is
>> hanging up. Same with the reservoir cut off .
>> Again thanks.
>>
>> Bob Nogueira
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB=BFYou should be able to find a set of seals to try. Lots cheaper =
than a
>> replacement master.
>>
>> In the past I found this kind of leak by having someone watching the
>> fluid surface in the reservoir while I pressed the pedal down. On my mas=
ter
>> there was a rise of the fluid where the jet of fluid came out of the
>> reservoir to cylinder hole, causing a =E2=80=9Clump=E2=80=9D in the flui=
d surface,
>> indicating a bad seal.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Pat
>>
>> Pat Horne
>> We support Habitat for Humanity
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <
>> shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB=BFOkay bleed the lines no solution, chance of air in the lines is=
remote,
>> the slave is higher than the master, the run between them is only a foot=
or
>> so and the line turns down for only a couple of inches between them.
>> Additionally the bleederis at the highest point of the slave.
>> The lines are new as is the slave and master.
>> I did disassemble the master to check it out and it appears to be a
>> Girling knockoff. The piston and reservoir shut off valve feel cheaply
>> made. I=E2=80=99m thinking that the reservoir shutoff may be leaking a b=
it until
>> pressure is built up thus forcing fluid into the reservoir rather than t=
o
>> the slave. Only way to check is order a new Girling master from Pegasus=
,
>> basically a $125 gamble.
>> Right now Donald and Pat are in the problem solving playoffs.
>> Will advise if the gamble pays off
>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>
>> Bob Nogueira
>>
>> B
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2019, at 7:18 PM, Donald H Locker via Shop-talk <
>> shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB=BFIt would sound like air to me, too, but that it works "90% of t=
he time"
>> which would indicate to me that one of the seals is not sealing properly=
.
>>
>> It's been a while, but I had a similar experience, and discovered that i=
f
>> I hit the pedal quick and hard, the clutch action was good; if not fast =
or
>> hard enough, the pedal was soft.
>>
>> My guess is that a seal is old and not always flaring out to the MC bore
>> when the pedal is pressed.
>>
>> Donald.
>> --
>> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
>> () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
>> /\ <http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>
>>
>> On 2019-10-09 8:03 p.m., PJ McGarvey via Shop-talk wrote:
>>
>> Sounds indicative of air in the lines, since the first pump is weak/soft=
,
>> but as you pump it a few more times you get more pressure. Check for loo=
se
>> connections and then bleed a whole bottle of fluid.
>>
>> PJ
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tom
>> Shirley Sr. via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:46 PM
>>
>> *Cc:* Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal
>>
>> Air in the lines?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 6:38 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <
>>
>> I have a hydraulic clutch, Girling 5/8=E2=80=9D master and a interna=
l slave
>>
>> that fits over the input shaft. Both are new. Problem is I have a
>>
>> really good feeling petal, no leaks and good operation 90% of the
>>
>> time but occasionally when you depress the clutch to change gears
>>
>> the petal feels soft and will not fully release the clutch. Letting
>>
>> the petal out and again depressing it and the feel and release are
>>
>> again normal. Reservoir shows no lost of fluid.
>>
>> Since the slave is mounted on the input shaft and operates directly
>>
>> on the throw out bearing there is no linkage to cause the problem.
>>
>> Any suggestions as to what could be causing this problem?
>>
>> Bob Nogueira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Suggested annual donation $12.96
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
--0000000000002ec04c059506cfb1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, poor quality after-market parts can cause considerabl=
e grief. I changed out my gearbox sprocket on a 1972 BSA B50SS to what was =
supposed to be a high-quality after-market sprocket. The bike leaked gear l=
ube from the day I installed it.<div><br></div><div>I thought=C2=A0it was t=
he seal or=C2=A0something else and and I tried numerous fixes until I just =
took it back out again and put a mic on it to find that the seal surface wa=
s so far out of round that it was not even being "shined" by the =
seal all the way around.</div><div><br></div><div>Bit the bullet, found a h=
igh quality British-made sprocket for about 2X the price of the first one, =
installed it and it has not leaked a drop since then.=C2=A0 I spent the bet=
ter part of several days redoing a job that would not have been necessary a=
t all if I had a high-quality replacement part in the=C2=A0first place.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Bottom line is that there is a lot of junk being sold=
out there. The money saved by "rolling the dice" on this junk si=
mply is not worth it for me anymore. Additionally, if we do not pay the pri=
ce for the high-quality OEM-grade parts, they probably will cease to be pro=
duced and all we will have left if the after-market junk that is causing us=
all a great deal of grief.</div><div><br></div><div>I will not buy eBay ju=
nk anymore.</div><div><br></div><div>best,</div><div><br></div><div>doug</d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 5:52 AM Doug Braun via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"=
mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";>shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div>I agree, this certainly sounds like a problem with the reservoir shutof=
f valve not closing properly.</div><div>If it were a problem with the main =
seals, a lot of fluif would have leaked out.</div><div><br></div><div>I had=
the same problem develop in my Spitfire brake master cylinder.=C2=A0 It tu=
rned out that the <br></div><div>"tipping valve" (the shutoff val=
ve for the forward half of the cylinder, was not seating properly.</div><di=
v>It was part of an aftermarket kit I had installed several years ago.=C2=
=A0 I re-installed the original one</div><div>(which I had kept), and the p=
roblem went away.</div><div><br></div><div>The lesson: In many cases a new =
part in an aftermarket rebuild kit can be inferior to a used original</div>=
<div>part.</div><div><br></div><div>Doug</div><div><br></div></div><br><div=
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 12=
, 2019 at 6:30 PM Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop=
-talk@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wr=
ote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"auto">Pat thank, =C2=A0but having inspected the master it appears to be su=
ch a poorly made copy of a Girling I see nothing but trouble in the future.=
the piston does not slide smoothly in the bore leading me to think it is ha=
nging up. Same with the reservoir cut off .<div>Again thanks.<br><div><br><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Nogueira=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite">On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:15 PM, Pat Horne <<a href=3D"mailto:p=
atintexas@icloud.com" target=3D"_blank">patintexas@icloud.com</a>> wrote=
:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BFYou should be able to find a set of seals to try. Lots cheaper than a=
replacement master.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>In the past I found this kind=
of leak by having someone watching the fluid surface in the reservoir whil=
e I pressed the pedal down. On my master there was a rise of the fluid wher=
e the jet of fluid came out of the reservoir to cylinder hole, causing a =
=E2=80=9Clump=E2=80=9D in the fluid surface, indicating a bad seal.=C2=A0</=
div><div><br></div><div>Peace,</div><div>Pat<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pat Ho=
rne=C2=A0<div>We support Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:46 PM, R=
obert Nogueirao via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></block=
quote></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>Okay bleed the lines no solutio=
n, chance of air in the lines is remote, the slave is higher than the maste=
r, the run between them is only a foot or so and the line turns down for on=
ly a couple of inches between them. Additionally=C2=A0<a dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"color:currentcolor;text-decoration-color:rgba(127,127,127,0.38)">the bl=
eeder</a>is at the highest point of the slave. =C2=A0</span><br><span>The l=
ines are new as is the slave and master. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><br><span>I did=
disassemble the master to check it out and it appears to be a Girling knoc=
koff. The piston and reservoir shut off valve feel cheaply made. I=E2=80=99=
m thinking that the reservoir shutoff may be leaking a bit until pressure i=
s built up thus forcing fluid into the reservoir rather than to the slave.=
=C2=A0 Only way to check is order a new Girling master from Pegasus, basica=
lly a $125 gamble.</span><br><span>Right now Donald and Pat are in the prob=
lem solving playoffs. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><br><span>Will advise if the gambl=
e pays off</span><br><span>Thanks for the suggestions.=C2=A0</span><br><spa=
n></span><br><span>Bob Nogueira=C2=A0</span><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">B</div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 9, 2019, at 7:18 PM,=
Donald H Locker via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></bloc=
kquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>It w=
ould sound like air to me, too, but that it works "90% of the time&quo=
t; which would indicate to me that one of the seals is not sealing properly=
.</span><br><span></span><br><span>It's been a while, but I had a simil=
ar experience, and discovered that if I hit the pedal quick and hard, the c=
lutch action was good; if not fast or hard enough, the pedal was soft.</spa=
n><br><span></span><br><span>My guess is that a seal is old and not always =
flaring out to the MC bore when the pedal is pressed.</span><br><span></spa=
n><br><span>Donald.</span><br><span>--</span><br><span>*Plain Text* email -=
- it's an accessibility issue</span><br><span>() no proprietary attachm=
ents; no html mail</span><br><span>/\ <<a href=3D"http://www.georgedillo=
n.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml" target=3D"_blank">http://www.georgedill=
on.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml</a>></span><br><span></span><br><spa=
n>On 2019-10-09 8:03 p.m., PJ McGarvey via Shop-talk wrote:</span><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><span>Sounds indicative of air in the lines, since the=
first pump is weak/soft, but as you pump it a few more times you get more =
pressure. Check for loose connections and then bleed a whole bottle of flui=
d.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>PJ</span><br></bl=
ockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>----------------------------------=
--------------------------------------</span><br></blockquote><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><span>*From:* Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk-bounce=
s@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>=
; on behalf of Tom Shirley Sr. via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-tal=
k@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>></span>=
<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*Sent:* Wednesday, October=
9, 2019 7:46 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>*Cc=
:* Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><span>*Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Weird clutch petal</span><br></=
blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Air in the lines?</span><br></bl=
ockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 6:38 PM Rober=
t Nogueirao via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; t=
arget=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
shop-talk@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>>=
;> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0I have a=C2=A0 hydraulic clutch, Girling 5/8=E2=80=9D master an=
d a internal slave</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0that fits over the input shaft. Both are new.=C2=A0 Probl=
em is I have a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0really good feeling petal, no leaks and good operation 90% o=
f the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0time but occasionally when you depress the clutch to change gears</sp=
an><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the =
petal feels soft and will not fully release the clutch. Letting</span><br><=
/blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the petal ou=
t and again depressing it and the feel and release are</span><br></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0again normal. Reservo=
ir shows no lost of fluid.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Since the slave is mounted on the input shaft and=
operates directly</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0on the throw out bearing there is no linkage to cause the=
problem.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0Any suggestions as to what could be causing this problem?</span><b=
r></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Bob Nogue=
ira</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><span> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Shop-ta=
lk@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a> <mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@a=
utox.team.net</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><spa=
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tp://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archiv=
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