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The late, great Norman Nock used to recommend a lacquer-like paste
called 'Wellseal,' esp. for the 4-cyl engines known for leaking between
the #2 and #3 cylinders (supposedly, not enough head studs in that
area). I've only put a few hundred miles on my BN2 since rebuild--with
Wellseal--but, so far, no sign of a leak.
I 'heard from the grapevine' that Payen off-shored manufacturing to
(guess where) and quality suffered. I had most of a Payen set I'd bought
decades ago for my BJ8 and didn't use for whatever reason. I used the
head gasket on my latest--and hopefully last--overhaul a few years ago;
6K miles and still good. If I needed to rebuild again I'd probably
spring for the composite-metal gasket from DWM; supposedly reusable for
up the 3 times.
Bob
On 10/27/2021 5:23 AM, m.g.sharp--- via Healeys wrote:
>
> Fred, I can add to Mikeâ??s comment as it is my BT7 we were working on.Â
> We had used the head gasket that came with the head set supplied by
> MOSS. As the engine warmed up I had coolant leaking out almost the
> entire length of the block/head seam, and coming up through several of
> the head studs. This was not a localized leak and I would describe it
> as complete failure of the gasket as far as the coolant passages are
> concerned. There was no evidence of oil leakage, but I think I am
> correct in saying that all but one of the oil passages between the
> head and block are for drainage back down to the sump and thus not
> under pressure. There was no water/steam in the exhaust and the car
> fired evenly (it sounded great!) and no coolant in the cylinders after
> we removed the head, so it looks like just the coolant was leaking.Â
> However remember the motor had been running for only about 15 min
> total over several gentle warm/cool cycles. FYI, I use a correct 7 lb
> rad cap.
>
> On removing the head we could find no evidence of any problem. The
> gasket looked fine, so we really do not know the cause of the
> failure. This was a complete rebuild so both the head and the block
> faces were machined.
>
> I ordered a â??Premiumâ?? head gasket which was supplied by A-H Spares via
> Healey Autofarm here in Ontario (thanks Amanda for the quick
> service). My understanding (i.e., I donâ??t know for a fact) is that
> A-H Spares has these Premium gaskets made and supplies them to others,
> including MOSS. It is pricey and the prices vary, so shop around.Â
> Neither Mike nor I could discern any visible difference between the
> â??regularâ?? head gasket and the Premium one (except for the part
> number), although we did not measure the thickness and the material
> that is sandwiched between the copper/steel outer layers may well be a
> different material or thickness.
>
> There is much debate about using a gasket dressing or not and I have
> never seen any actual evidence that using it helps the sealing; it is
> all anecdotal evidence (e.g., â??I have/have not used a head dressing
> for 40 years and never had a problemâ??). Neither Mike nor I have ever
> used a head gasket dressing in other rebuilds so although we discussed
> it we did not apply any. Curiously, the MOSS tech expert finally
> responded to my request to discuss the issue (about a 3 week response
> time!). He has apparently rebuild many Healey engines and always uses
> a gasket dressing. Take what you want from that. He had no
> explanation or helpful suggestions that Mike and I had not already
> discussed.
>
> The head is now torqued down and the rocker shaft is on and torqued.
> Â I plan to get everything else bolted up this week and will re-start
> the engine, perhaps tomorrow. Iâ??d be grateful if all listers could
> keep their fingers crossed tomorrow in the hopes that positive vibes
> will compensate for any lack of quality in current head gaskets for
> Healeys.
>
> BTW, it was two elderly folk and one pretty strong young buck that
> removed the head w/manifolds â?? my 30 something friend Dan might be
> cheesed as being referred to as elderly! I had lifted the head with
> manifolds once before so knew it could be done, but this was a BT7 and
> I am unfamiliar with the details of a BJ7 engine bay and whether there
> are any added complications. I suggest if you lift it with the
> manifolds, rest the head on top of the studs when you lift it and
> remove the two intake manifold drain pipes, and do the same in reverse
> (as they are a real bugger to get on later) and you would have to lift
> the head very high when removing if you left them on. Frankly, use of
> an engine lift/chain fall would be safer (but less exciting) if you
> have access to one.
>
> Stay tuned! Mirek
>
> *From:*Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Salter
> *Sent:* October 26, 2021 10:24 PM
> *To:* healeys <Healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Head weight
>
> We are struggling with head gasket problems on a newly rebuilt engine
> BT7 engine at present so will be following this discussion closely.
>
> Regarding lifting the head off with the engine in the car.
>
> With the manifolds on we managed reasonably easily with 1 person on
> each side lifting the rear of the head and 1 at the front. Bit of a
> grunt but possible with 3 somewhat elderly folks.
>
> M
>
> On Tue., Oct. 26, 2021, 10:15 p.m. Fred Wescoe via Healeys,
> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> It appears that I may have to pull the head (some oil in the
> radiator fluid) on my 66 BJ8 and I may (likely) have to replace
> the head gasket. I am going to leave the engine in the car. I
> have pulled the head of my BJ7 but that was many years ago. I
> will need help physically (I'm older now) to pull the BJ8 head.Â
> Does anyone know what the *actual weight* of just the head is? I
> need to determine how many people I need to help me. Of course, I
> will remove everything from the head before pulling it and then
> place a straight edge on the head and block to determine if I have
> additional issues to deal with. Hopefully not but I will check.
>
> Do I use sealant on the new head gasket and if so what type?  One
> side or both sides?
>
> After the recent discussion on Moss and their prices and quality,
> what are the thoughts about sources for a good quality head
> gasket, without being gouged. Entering the cold months, I have
> plenty of time to do this right. Is there anything I should be on
> the lookout for, or check before buttoning up things?
>
> I want to do this just once but I do want to do it completely and
> correctly. So, any words of wisdom are certainly appreciated.
>
> Thanks as always,
>
> Fred
>
> 66BJ8
>
>
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The late, great Norman Nock used to recommend a lacquer-like paste
called 'Wellseal,' esp. for the 4-cyl engines known for leaking
between the #2 and #3 cylinders (supposedly, not enough head studs
in that area). I've only put a few hundred miles on my BN2 since
rebuild--with Wellseal--but, so far, no sign of a leak.<br>
<br>
I 'heard from the grapevine' that Payen off-shored manufacturing to
(guess where) and quality suffered. I had most of a Payen set I'd
bought decades ago for my BJ8 and didn't use for whatever reason. I
used the head gasket on my latest--and hopefully last--overhaul a
few years ago; 6K miles and still good. If I needed to rebuild again
I'd probably spring for the composite-metal gasket from DWM;
supposedly reusable for up the 3 times.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/27/2021 5:23 AM, m.g.sharp--- via
Healeys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:003601d7cb2d$6d8cf480$48a6dd80$@sympatico.ca">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Fred,
I can add to Mikeâ??s comment as it is my BT7 we were working
on. We had used the head gasket that came with the head set
supplied by MOSS. As the engine warmed up I had coolant
leaking out almost the entire length of the block/head seam,
and coming up through several of the head studs. This was
not a localized leak and I would describe it as complete
failure of the gasket as far as the coolant passages are
concerned. There was no evidence of oil leakage, but I
think I am correct in saying that all but one of the oil
passages between the head and block are for drainage back
down to the sump and thus not under pressure. There was no
water/steam in the exhaust and the car fired evenly (it
sounded great!) and no coolant in the cylinders after we
removed the head, so it looks like just the coolant was
leaking. However remember the motor had been running for
only about 15 min total over several gentle warm/cool
cycles. FYI, I use a correct 7 lb rad cap.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">On
removing the head we could find no evidence of any problem.Â
The gasket looked fine, so we really do not know the cause
of the failure. This was a complete rebuild so both the
head and the block faces were machined.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
ordered a â??Premiumâ?? head gasket which was supplied by A-H
Spares via Healey Autofarm here in Ontario (thanks Amanda
for the quick service). My understanding (i.e., I donâ??t
know for a fact) is that A-H Spares has these Premium
gaskets made and supplies them to others, including MOSS.Â
It is pricey and the prices vary, so shop around. Neither
Mike nor I could discern any visible difference between the
â??regularâ?? head gasket and the Premium one (except for the
part number), although we did not measure the thickness and
the material that is sandwiched between the copper/steel
outer layers may well be a different material or
thickness.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There
is much debate about using a gasket dressing or not and I
have never seen any actual evidence that using it helps the
sealing; it is all anecdotal evidence (e.g., â??I have/have
not used a head dressing for 40 years and never had a
problemâ??). Neither Mike nor I have ever used a head gasket
dressing in other rebuilds so although we discussed it we
did not apply any. Curiously, the MOSS tech expert finally
responded to my request to discuss the issue (about a 3 week
response time!). He has apparently rebuild many Healey
engines and always uses a gasket dressing. Take what you
want from that. He had no explanation or helpful
suggestions that Mike and I had not already
discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
head is now torqued down and the rocker shaft is on and
torqued. Â I plan to get everything else bolted up this week
and will re-start the engine, perhaps tomorrow. Iâ??d be
grateful if all listers could keep their fingers crossed
tomorrow in the hopes that positive vibes will compensate
for any lack of quality in current head gaskets for
Healeys.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">BTW,
it was two elderly folk and one pretty strong young buck
that removed the head w/manifolds â?? my 30 something friend
Dan might be cheesed as being referred to as elderly! I had
lifted the head with manifolds once before so knew it could
be done, but this was a BT7 and I am unfamiliar with the
details of a BJ7 engine bay and whether there are any added
complications. I suggest if you lift it with the manifolds,
rest the head on top of the studs when you lift it and
remove the two intake manifold drain pipes, and do the same
in reverse (as they are a real bugger to get on later) and
you would have to lift the head very high when removing if
you left them on. Frankly, use of an engine lift/chain fall
would be safer (but less exciting) if you have access to
one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Stay
tuned! Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Healeys
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";><healeys-bounces@autox.team.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael
Salter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> October 26, 2021 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> healeys <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";><Healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Head weight<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are struggling with head gasket
problems on a newly rebuilt engine BT7 engine at present so
will be following this discussion closely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regarding lifting the head off with the
engine in the car.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With the manifolds on we managed
reasonably easily with 1 person on each side lifting the
rear of the head and 1 at the front. Bit of a grunt but
possible with 3 somewhat elderly folks.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">M<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue., Oct. 26, 2021, 10:15 p.m. Fred
Wescoe via Healeys, <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Listers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It appears that I may have to pull
the head (some oil in the radiator fluid) on my 66 BJ8
and I may (likely) have to replace the head gasket. I
am going to leave the engine in the car. I have
pulled the head of my BJ7 but that was many years
ago. I will need help physically (I'm older now) to
pull the BJ8 head. Does anyone know what the <b>actual
weight</b> of just the head is? I need to determine
how many people I need to help me. Of course, I will
remove everything from the head before pulling it and
then place a straight edge on the head and block to
determine if I have additional issues to deal with.Â
Hopefully not but I will check.  <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do I use sealant on the new head
gasket and if so what type?  One side or both
sides?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">After the recent discussion on Moss
and their prices and quality, what are the thoughts
about sources for a good quality head gasket, without
being gouged. Entering the cold months, I have plenty
of time to do this right. Is there anything I should
be on the lookout for, or check before buttoning up
things? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I want to do this just once but I
do want to do it completely and correctly. So, any
words of wisdom are certainly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks as always,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fred<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">66BJ8<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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