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Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything
to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent,
with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how
tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane rating, and its
cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a side-effect). But, it's
human nature to think "If a little of this is good, a lot HAS to be
better," but it's not necessarily true. ZDDP is corrosive in high
concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to be about 1,500PPM.
Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to improper
break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which makes this doubly
mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change
the outcome; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.
On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:
> Good practice
>
> Ira Erbs
> 1959 AH 100-6
> 1967 MGB
> Milwaukie, OR
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com
>
> So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay? I have
> Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys
>
> In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a
> commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I
> bought a new race engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from
> a reputable builder who recommended I use Mobil 1. Somewhere
> during the first race weekend performance fell off and upon
> disassembly it was determined that the cam lobes had been
> damaged due to wear from the lifters.
>
> After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing
> oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure. Though the
> Royal Purple probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and
> some folks cautioned against too high levels of zinc I haveÂ
> continued this combination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.
>
> YMMV....
>
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter
>
> The first sign of problems was having to adjust the
> tappets which had initially been silent after 2000 miles
> and then again at 4500.
> After adjusting they were still audible and had previously
> been silent.
> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir"
> in the drain plug magnet.
> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage
> "M" cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving
> for decades.
> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters
> manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.
>
> M
>
> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury,
> <airtightproductions@icloud.com
>
> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters
> from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design
> for better oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on
> the new engine and once I got my problems figured out
> with my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
> Â Â Â Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to
> drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the
> lifters as the source of those problems? When I
> retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found
> no problems. They were a little off, but I expected a
> little.
> Â Â Â What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break
> In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500
> miles. I have been driving the car to build up some
> trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive.
> I've got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M
> pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.
> Â Â Â Thanks for your help,
> Steven Kingsbury
> BN1
>
> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via
> Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net
>
>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I
>> installed in my engine with a very low mileage "M"
>> cam have started to deteriorate.
>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non
>> synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.
>> Very disappointing.
>> I'm considering trying bucket type Buick lifters
>> with longer push rods and a new cam.
>> Does anyone have experience with the durability of
>> the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate
>> here.
>> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the
>> engine.
>>
>> M
>>
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Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
(like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little of this
is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily true.
ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears
to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
<br>
Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket
lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
reduced wear of the block.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABXhz8-Wo8FFLD5S3vnx3wzEbmL_KEbqsX7CCD7d44Hb_W1S6A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Good practice<br>
<br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Ira Erbs<br>
1959 AH 100-6<br>
1967 MGB<br>
Milwaukie, OR</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
Alan Seigrist <<a href="mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
is okay? I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the
Valvoline too.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">In
about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
communities, I bought a new race engine for my
MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
recommended I use Mobil 1. Somewhere during the first
race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
due to wear from the lifters.  </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">After
replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing
oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.Â
Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
zddp on its own and some folks cautioned against too
high levels of zinc I have continued this combination
and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">YMMV....  </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at
11:16 PM Michael Salter <<a
href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">The first sign of problems was having
to adjust the tappets which had initially been
silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
<div dir="auto">After adjusting they were still
audible and had previously been silent.</div>
<div dir="auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
changes there was "fir" in the drain plug magnet.</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm very disappointed to have
destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a set of
NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm seriously considering having
silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
$1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <<a
href="mailto:airtightproductions@icloud.com";
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">airtightproductions@icloud.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
were their new design for better oil flow. I
now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
and once I got my problems figured out with my
distributor, the car is running well and
smooth.</div>
<div>Â Â Â Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is
going to drop! What problems did you have
pointing you to the lifters as the source of
those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
They were a little off, but I expected a
little.</div>
<div>Â Â Â What should I be looking for? I used
Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
the car to build up some trust in it and it's
turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods
on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
these new lifters. So far, so good. </div>
<div>Â Â Â Thanks for your help,</div>
<div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
<div>BN1</div>
<div><br>
On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
via Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">After only 6000 miles the
NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
engine with a very low mileage "M" cam
have started to deteriorate.Â
<div dir="auto">This engine has had a
steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
it has had 4 changes in 6K miles. </div>
<div dir="auto">Very disappointing. </div>
<div dir="auto">I'm considering trying
bucket type Buick lifters with longer
push rods and a new cam.</div>
<div dir="auto">Does anyone have
experience with the durability of the
old Buick lifters ... getting a little
desperate here.</div>
<div dir="auto">Fortunately I caught
this issue before it ruined the
engine.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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