--===============7796002404837090986==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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I=E2=80=99ve had the VH44 servo for a long time, and I use Dot 5 fluid.
With all the different arguments about whether Dot 5 is a good idea, I =
always decided that it was the right solution for me.
I have a firm pedal=E2=80=A6no water absorption, and especially no paint =
removal.
BUT - if the servo began to leak and the fluid was drawn into the =
manifold, then that would serious. Silicone fluid reduced by high heat =
is abrasive (sand!) and very bad for the bores.
I won=E2=80=99t give up the Dot 5 , so I gave up my servo. I did change =
the master cylinder bore size.
I know this may stir some controversy, but it wasn=E2=80=99t a decision =
made lightly, or quickly.
Stephen, BJ8
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 8:30 PM, Earl Kagna <kags@shaw.ca> wrote:
>=20
> Fred / Bob:
> =20
> I have to agree with Michael on this =E2=80=93 rebuilding the Girling =
servo is tricky at best. Plus, there is always the possibility that the =
bore in the servo body has enough damage that it would need to be =
repaired =E2=80=93 sleeved =E2=80=93 which is a complicated job as the =
bore is stepped. And you don=E2=80=99t really know it=E2=80=99s needed =
until it is off the car and apart.
> =20
> Another diagnostic measure: pull the rear spark plugs - if there is =
brake fluid being drawn in, they will very white in appearance, =
depending on the brake fluid (glycol or silicone).
> =20
> Quite a few us here on the west coast in BC have installed the PBR =
VH44 servo with great success. It is a more modern design =E2=80=93 a =
diaphragm servo, rather than the vacuum piston. Plus it has a very =
convenient bleed screw of it=E2=80=99s own =E2=80=93 particularly =
helpful if DOT 5 silicone brake fluid is being used. Plus, it doesn=E2=80=
=99t look too out of place on the Healey, unless you paint it pink!
> =20
> I=E2=80=99m sure that a search of the usual Healey parts suppliers =
will tell you if they are available in North America. We have dealt =
with Hydroboost in Australia =E2=80=93 last time we ordered, they =
supplied fitting kits as well =E2=80=93 a couple of pre-bent brake =
pipes, a correct vacuum hose (it needs to be about 4 inches longer than =
the original), and a pair of Kilmartin mounting brackets (they are very =
close neighbours).
> =20
> One caution: the PBR VH44 is made in several boost ratios, so pay =
attention to get the correct version for the Healey. Check their =
web-site =E2=80=93 all kinds of interesting information on servos.
> =20
> Hope this helps.
> =20
> Earl Kagna
> Victoria, B.C.
> BJ8, BT7 tri-carb
> =20
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brakes
> =20
> I would agree with Bob that the most likely problem is the servo.
> You can check this fairly easily by loosening off the lower 10/32 nuts =
and screws on the servo chest and gently prying it open a little.
> If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.
> IMHO Bob's 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a little optimistic =
=F0=9F=99=84=F0=9F=99=84.
> Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to succeed on your =
first few attempts.
> Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many years ago because of the =
dismal success rate and started installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly =
still available from Healey Surgeons, which require different mount =
brackets and fluid lines. We never had a VH44 come-back.
> M
> =20
> On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. Bob Spidell, <bspidell@comcast.net =
>> If a significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo you=20=
>> will get white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most running=20
>> conditions). This is because the engine will suck fluid into the =
intake=20
>> manifold through the vacuum hose. The most likely cause of this is =
the=20
>> 'gland' seal; which seals the vacuum piston--the large canister on =
the=20
>> servo--from the servo's hydraulics (it has two pistons; one is =
activated=20
>> by pedal pressure to gate air at ambient pressure into the canister =
to=20
>> assist a second 'master' cylinder, which powers the slave cyls).
>>=20
>> You can rebuild the servo yourself; I've done it once successfully,=20=
>> others report 50-50 success. I've not heard overwhelming stories of=20=
>> success with aftermarket (Lockheed, or an Australian equivalent)=20
>> replacements, but some like them. They aren't apparently, a 'drop in'=20=
>> replacement without some fiddling, and hearsay says they're not as=20
>> effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex suit on). The hydraulic=20
>> section of the servos is not much different from ordinary brake=20
>> cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of the theory=20=
>> and workings of the servos; it took me several reads and some =
cogitating=20
>> to grok it all, but they are pretty ingenious.
>>=20
>> If you're not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good as mine; =
I=20
>> have the same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums to check =
the=20
>> rear slave cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I had bled =
them=20
>> before the problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch somehow =
on=20
>> the bleed.
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:
>> > I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am new to this =
BJ8=20
>> > with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many years. I =
don't=20
>> > find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's tech talk =
manual.
>> >
>> > When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes to the floor. I am =
losing=20
>> > hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there are no apparent leaks =
that=20
>> > I can see. There are no fluid spots on the garage floor at each =
wheel=20
>> > and no evidence of brake fluid on the wire wheels which would =
indicate=20
>> > a leak. I have pulled each wheel and I do not see brake fluid =
anywhere.
>> >
>> > Is it possible that the fluid is leaking into the brake booster? =
How=20
>> > am I able to check that out? If this is the case, can the booster =
be=20
>> > repaired by me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid is leaking =
into=20
>> > the booster, is it better to simply replace the booster and who is =
a=20
>> > good source?
>> >
>> > Something always happens before what promises to be a great sunny =
weekend.
>> >
>> > Thanks for any help,
>> >
>> > Fred
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> http://autox.team.net/archive =
<http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>=20
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve had the VH44 servo for a long time, and I use =
Dot 5 fluid.<div class=3D"">With all the different arguments about =
whether Dot 5 is a good idea, I always decided that it was the right =
solution for me.</div><div class=3D"">I have a firm pedal=E2=80=A6no =
water absorption, and especially no paint removal.</div><div =
class=3D"">BUT - if the servo began to leak and the fluid was drawn into =
the manifold, then that would serious. Silicone fluid reduced by high =
heat is abrasive (sand!) and very bad for the bores.</div><div =
class=3D"">I won=E2=80=99t give up the Dot 5 , so I gave up my servo. I =
did change the master cylinder bore size.</div><div class=3D"">I know =
this may stir some controversy, but it wasn=E2=80=99t a decision made =
lightly, or quickly.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Stephen, BJ8<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jun 12, 2020, at 8:30 PM, =
Earl Kagna <<a href=3D"mailto:kags@shaw.ca"; =
class=3D"">kags@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #141100" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Fred / Bob:</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">I have to agree with Michael on this =E2=80=93 =
rebuilding the Girling servo is=20
tricky at best. Plus, there is always the possibility that the =
bore in the=20
servo body has enough damage that it would need to be repaired =E2=80=93 =
sleeved =E2=80=93 which=20
is a complicated job as the bore is stepped. And you don=E2=80=99t =
really know=20
it=E2=80=99s needed until it is off the car and apart.</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">Another diagnostic measure: pull the rear spark plugs - =
if there is brake=20
fluid being drawn in, they will very white in appearance, depending on =
the brake=20
fluid (glycol or silicone).</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">Quite a few us here on the west coast in BC have =
installed the PBR VH44=20
servo with great success. It is a more modern design =E2=80=93 a =
diaphragm servo,=20
rather than the vacuum piston. Plus it has a very convenient bleed =
screw=20
of it=E2=80=99s own =E2=80=93 particularly helpful if DOT 5 silicone =
brake fluid is being=20
used. Plus, it doesn=E2=80=99t look too out of place on the =
Healey, unless you=20
paint it pink! </div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m sure that a search of the usual Healey parts =
suppliers will tell you if=20
they are available in North America. We have dealt with Hydroboost =
in=20
Australia =E2=80=93 last time we ordered, they supplied fitting kits as =
well =E2=80=93 a couple=20
of pre-bent brake pipes, a correct vacuum hose (it needs to be about 4 =
inches=20
longer than the original), and a pair of Kilmartin mounting brackets =
(they are=20
very close neighbours).</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">One caution: the PBR VH44 is made in several boost =
ratios, so pay attention=20
to get the correct version for the Healey. Check their web-site =
=E2=80=93 all=20
kinds of interesting information on servos.</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">Hope this helps.</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #141100" =
class=3D"">Earl=20
Kagna<br class=3D"">Victoria, B.C.<br class=3D"">BJ8, BT7 tri-carb</div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: =
Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:</b>=20
<a title=3D"michaelsalter@gmail.com" =
href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; class=3D"">Michael=20
Salter</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Friday, June 12, 2020 9:35 =
AM</div>
<div class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b> <a title=3D"bspidell@comcast.net" =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; class=3D"">Bob Spidell</a> </div>
<div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b> <a title=3D"healeys@autox.team.net" =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a> </div>
<div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] =
Brakes</div></div></div>
<div class=3D""> </div></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: =
Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">I would agree with Bob that the most likely problem is =
the servo.=20
<div class=3D"">You can check this fairly easily by loosening off the =
lower 10/32 nuts and=20
screws on the servo chest and gently prying it open a little. </div>
<div class=3D"">If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.</div>
<div class=3D"">IMHO Bob's 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a =
little optimistic=20
=F0=9F=99=84=F0=9F=99=84.</div>
<div class=3D"">Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to =
succeed on your first few=20
attempts.</div>
<div class=3D"">Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many years ago =
because of the dismal=20
success rate and started installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly still =
available=20
from Healey Surgeons, which require different mount brackets and fluid =
lines. We=20
never had a VH44 come-back.</div>
<div class=3D"">M</div></div>
<div class=3D""> </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. =
Bob Spidell,=20
<<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>=20
wrote:<br class=3D""></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: =
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid" type=3D"cite">If=20
a significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo you <br =
class=3D"">will get=20
white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most running <br =
class=3D"">conditions). This is=20
because the engine will suck fluid into the intake <br =
class=3D"">manifold through the=20
vacuum hose. The most likely cause of this is the <br class=3D"">'gland'=
seal; which=20
seals the vacuum piston--the large canister on the <br =
class=3D"">servo--from the servo's=20
hydraulics (it has two pistons; one is activated <br class=3D"">by =
pedal pressure to gate=20
air at ambient pressure into the canister to <br class=3D"">assist a =
second 'master'=20
cylinder, which powers the slave cyls).<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">You=
can rebuild the servo=20
yourself; I've done it once successfully, <br class=3D"">others report =
50-50 success.=20
I've not heard overwhelming stories of <br class=3D"">success with =
aftermarket (Lockheed,=20
or an Australian equivalent) <br class=3D"">replacements, but some =
like them. They aren't=20
apparently, a 'drop in' <br class=3D"">replacement without some =
fiddling, and hearsay=20
says they're not as <br class=3D"">effective as the Girling (putting =
my Nomex suit on).=20
The hydraulic <br class=3D"">section of the servos is not much =
different from ordinary=20
brake <br class=3D"">cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent =
explanation of the=20
theory <br class=3D"">and workings of the servos; it took me several =
reads and some=20
cogitating <br class=3D"">to grok it all, but they are pretty =
ingenious.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If you're=20
not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good as mine; I <br =
class=3D"">have the=20
same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums to check the <br =
class=3D"">rear slave=20
cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I had bled them <br =
class=3D"">before the=20
problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch somehow on <br =
class=3D"">the=20
bleed.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br=
class=3D"">On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:<br class=3D"">>=20=
I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am new to =
this BJ8=20
<br class=3D"">> with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for =
many years. I=20
don't <br class=3D"">> find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm =
Nock's tech talk=20
manual.<br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">> When I press the brake =
pedal, it slowly goes to the=20
floor. I am losing <br class=3D"">> hydraulic fluid in the =
reservoir but there are no=20
apparent leaks that <br class=3D"">> I can see. There are no =
fluid spots on the=20
garage floor at each wheel <br class=3D"">> and no evidence of =
brake fluid on the wire=20
wheels which would indicate <br class=3D"">> a leak. I have =
pulled each wheel=20
and I do not see brake fluid anywhere.<br class=3D"">><br =
class=3D"">> Is it possible that the=20
fluid is leaking into the brake booster? How <br class=3D"">> =
am I able to check=20
that out? If this is the case, can the booster be <br =
class=3D"">> repaired by=20
me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid is leaking into <br =
class=3D"">> the=20
booster, is it better to simply replace the booster and who is a=20=
<br class=3D"">> good source?<br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">> =
Something always happens before what=20
promises to be a great sunny weekend.<br class=3D"">><br =
class=3D"">> Thanks for any=20
help,<br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">>=20
Fred<br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">><br =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Support=20
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