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Fred / Bob:
I have to agree with Michael on this =E2=80=93 rebuilding the Girling =
servo is tricky at best. Plus, there is always the possibility that the =
bore in the servo body has enough damage that it would need to be =
repaired =E2=80=93 sleeved =E2=80=93 which is a complicated job as the =
bore is stepped. And you don=E2=80=99t really know it=E2=80=99s needed =
until it is off the car and apart.
Another diagnostic measure: pull the rear spark plugs - if there is =
brake fluid being drawn in, they will very white in appearance, =
depending on the brake fluid (glycol or silicone).
Quite a few us here on the west coast in BC have installed the PBR VH44 =
servo with great success. It is a more modern design =E2=80=93 a =
diaphragm servo, rather than the vacuum piston. Plus it has a very =
convenient bleed screw of it=E2=80=99s own =E2=80=93 particularly =
helpful if DOT 5 silicone brake fluid is being used. Plus, it =
doesn=E2=80=99t look too out of place on the Healey, unless you paint it =
pink!=20
I=E2=80=99m sure that a search of the usual Healey parts suppliers will =
tell you if they are available in North America. We have dealt with =
Hydroboost in Australia =E2=80=93 last time we ordered, they supplied =
fitting kits as well =E2=80=93 a couple of pre-bent brake pipes, a =
correct vacuum hose (it needs to be about 4 inches longer than the =
original), and a pair of Kilmartin mounting brackets (they are very =
close neighbours).
One caution: the PBR VH44 is made in several boost ratios, so pay =
attention to get the correct version for the Healey. Check their =
web-site =E2=80=93 all kinds of interesting information on servos.
Hope this helps.
Earl Kagna
Victoria, B.C.
BJ8, BT7 tri-carb
From: Michael Salter=20
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:35 AM
To: Bob Spidell=20
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net=20
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brakes
I would agree with Bob that the most likely problem is the servo.=20
You can check this fairly easily by loosening off the lower 10/32 nuts =
and screws on the servo chest and gently prying it open a little.=20
If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.
IMHO Bob's 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a little optimistic =
=F0=9F=99=84=F0=9F=99=84.
Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to succeed on your first =
few attempts.
Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many years ago because of the =
dismal success rate and started installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly =
still available from Healey Surgeons, which require different mount =
brackets and fluid lines. We never had a VH44 come-back.
M
On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. Bob Spidell, <bspidell@comcast.net> =
wrote:
If a significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo you=20
will get white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most running=20
conditions). This is because the engine will suck fluid into the =
intake=20
manifold through the vacuum hose. The most likely cause of this is the =
'gland' seal; which seals the vacuum piston--the large canister on the =
servo--from the servo's hydraulics (it has two pistons; one is =
activated=20
by pedal pressure to gate air at ambient pressure into the canister to =
assist a second 'master' cylinder, which powers the slave cyls).
You can rebuild the servo yourself; I've done it once successfully,=20
others report 50-50 success. I've not heard overwhelming stories of=20
success with aftermarket (Lockheed, or an Australian equivalent)=20
replacements, but some like them. They aren't apparently, a 'drop in'=20
replacement without some fiddling, and hearsay says they're not as=20
effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex suit on). The hydraulic=20
section of the servos is not much different from ordinary brake=20
cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of the theory=20
and workings of the servos; it took me several reads and some =
cogitating=20
to grok it all, but they are pretty ingenious.
If you're not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good as mine; =
I=20
have the same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums to check =
the=20
rear slave cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I had bled =
them=20
before the problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch somehow =
on=20
the bleed.
Bob
On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:
> I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am new to this =
BJ8=20
> with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many years. I don't =
> find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's tech talk =
manual.
>
> When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes to the floor. I am =
losing=20
> hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there are no apparent leaks =
that=20
> I can see. There are no fluid spots on the garage floor at each =
wheel=20
> and no evidence of brake fluid on the wire wheels which would =
indicate=20
> a leak. I have pulled each wheel and I do not see brake fluid =
anywhere.
>
> Is it possible that the fluid is leaking into the brake booster? =
How=20
> am I able to check that out? If this is the case, can the booster =
be=20
> repaired by me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid is leaking =
into=20
> the booster, is it better to simply replace the booster and who is =
a=20
> good source?
>
> Something always happens before what promises to be a great sunny =
weekend.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Fred
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #141100">
<DIV>Fred / Bob:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have to agree with Michael on this =E2=80=93 rebuilding the =
Girling servo is=20
tricky at best. Plus, there is always the possibility that the =
bore in the=20
servo body has enough damage that it would need to be repaired =E2=80=93 =
sleeved =E2=80=93 which=20
is a complicated job as the bore is stepped. And you don=E2=80=99t =
really know=20
it=E2=80=99s needed until it is off the car and apart.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Another diagnostic measure: pull the rear spark plugs - if there is =
brake=20
fluid being drawn in, they will very white in appearance, depending on =
the brake=20
fluid (glycol or silicone).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Quite a few us here on the west coast in BC have installed the PBR =
VH44=20
servo with great success. It is a more modern design =E2=80=93 a =
diaphragm servo,=20
rather than the vacuum piston. Plus it has a very convenient bleed =
screw=20
of it=E2=80=99s own =E2=80=93 particularly helpful if DOT 5 silicone =
brake fluid is being=20
used. Plus, it doesn=E2=80=99t look too out of place on the =
Healey, unless you=20
paint it pink! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I=E2=80=99m sure that a search of the usual Healey parts suppliers =
will tell you if=20
they are available in North America. We have dealt with Hydroboost =
in=20
Australia =E2=80=93 last time we ordered, they supplied fitting kits as =
well =E2=80=93 a couple=20
of pre-bent brake pipes, a correct vacuum hose (it needs to be about 4 =
inches=20
longer than the original), and a pair of Kilmartin mounting brackets =
(they are=20
very close neighbours).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One caution: the PBR VH44 is made in several boost ratios, so pay =
attention=20
to get the correct version for the Healey. Check their web-site =
=E2=80=93 all=20
kinds of interesting information on servos.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hope this helps.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: =
#141100">Earl=20
Kagna<BR>Victoria, B.C.<BR>BJ8, BT7 tri-carb</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmichaelsalter@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com";>Michael=20
Salter</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 12, 2020 9:35 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dbspidell@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>Bob Spidell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dhealeys@autox.team.net=20
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Healeys] Brakes</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV>I would agree with Bob that the most likely problem is the servo.=20
<DIV>You can check this fairly easily by loosening off the lower 10/32 =
nuts and=20
screws on the servo chest and gently prying it open a little. </DIV>
<DIV>If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.</DIV>
<DIV>IMHO Bob's 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a little =
optimistic=20
=F0=9F=99=84=F0=9F=99=84.</DIV>
<DIV>Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to succeed on your =
first few=20
attempts.</DIV>
<DIV>Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many years ago because of =
the dismal=20
success rate and started installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly still =
available=20
from Healey Surgeons, which require different mount brackets and fluid =
lines. We=20
never had a VH44 come-back.</DIV>
<DIV>M</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_attr dir=3Dltr>On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. Bob =
Spidell,=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</A>> =
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc =
1px solid">If=20
a significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo you =
<BR>will get=20
white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most running <BR>conditions). =
This is=20
because the engine will suck fluid into the intake <BR>manifold =
through the=20
vacuum hose. The most likely cause of this is the <BR>'gland' seal; =
which=20
seals the vacuum piston--the large canister on the <BR>servo--from the =
servo's=20
hydraulics (it has two pistons; one is activated <BR>by pedal pressure =
to gate=20
air at ambient pressure into the canister to <BR>assist a second =
'master'=20
cylinder, which powers the slave cyls).<BR><BR>You can rebuild the =
servo=20
yourself; I've done it once successfully, <BR>others report 50-50 =
success.=20
I've not heard overwhelming stories of <BR>success with aftermarket =
(Lockheed,=20
or an Australian equivalent) <BR>replacements, but some like them. =
They aren't=20
apparently, a 'drop in' <BR>replacement without some fiddling, and =
hearsay=20
says they're not as <BR>effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex =
suit on).=20
The hydraulic <BR>section of the servos is not much different from =
ordinary=20
brake <BR>cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of =
the=20
theory <BR>and workings of the servos; it took me several reads and =
some=20
cogitating <BR>to grok it all, but they are pretty =
ingenious.<BR><BR>If you're=20
not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good as mine; I <BR>have =
the=20
same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums to check the =
<BR>rear slave=20
cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I had bled them =
<BR>before the=20
problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch somehow on <BR>the=20
bleed.<BR><BR>Bob<BR><BR><BR>On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe =
wrote:<BR>>=20
I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am new to =
this BJ8=20
<BR>> with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many =
years. I=20
don't <BR>> find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's =
tech talk=20
manual.<BR>><BR>> When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes =
to the=20
floor. I am losing <BR>> hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there =
are no=20
apparent leaks that <BR>> I can see. There are no fluid spots =
on the=20
garage floor at each wheel <BR>> and no evidence of brake fluid on =
the wire=20
wheels which would indicate <BR>> a leak. I have pulled each =
wheel=20
and I do not see brake fluid anywhere.<BR>><BR>> Is it possible =
that the=20
fluid is leaking into the brake booster? How <BR>> am I able =
to check=20
that out? If this is the case, can the booster be <BR>> =
repaired by=20
me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid is leaking into =
<BR>> the=20
booster, is it better to simply replace the booster and who is a =
<BR>> good source?<BR>><BR>> Something always happens before =
what=20
promises to be a great sunny weekend.<BR>><BR>> Thanks for any=20
help,<BR>><BR>>=20
=
Fred<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR>_____________________________________=
__________<BR>Support=20
Team.Net <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"noreferrer =
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